Thanks for the suggestion. I'll consider it, even though it appears that you are attempting to read more into my comments than was intended. I did say that I did not intend to discount your concerns and it certainly wasn't intended to "diminish" you. And I'm sure as hell not defending the Brigadiers. I have no reason to, for I do not know any of them personally and have no insight into any of the things you allege other than what has been printed in the press and the few opinions I read on the usenet group you pointed out.
The fact is that all your evidence so far presented was all conjecture, hearsay, and opinion. That's not dismissive. I commend you that you at least outright clarified your statement about this individual in California that, "no "direct" ties which can be "proven",...". And about the improprieties you allege of the Brigadiers, you said, "there are the rumors and tales of skimming and under-the-table monies". That's more than anti-smokers and tobacco control lobbyists do. But the fact remains that none of that is hard evidence. Calling it hearsay is simply an accurate description of what it is, and that is not diminishing. I'm sorry you perceived is as such. I'm simply saying that I don't know and you haven't proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. He said, she said arguments are hard to prove, especially when the person you're trying to convince doesn't have any insight into the motivations of the parties involved, and I have absolutely none. That said, quite a bit of hearsay does have at least a little basis in fact, and if your allegations are right and proven, then I hope, like you, that the culprits reap the just consequences of their improprieties.
"And there are far more arguments of substance - and a lack of similarly substantive arguments from the other side - on the link to rec.arts.marching.drumcorps I provided."
And I never said there was any there from the opposing side, either. If I did, show me. Look, lady, I'm not taking sides, especially not after hearing from only one side. This thread is not the place to try the Brigadiers bingo people. You feel wronged by them in some way and you informed us. You've done your duty. But the trial and the assessment of the facts will happen in the courts or whatever hearings they will be subject to. And if this were a court, I haven't seen anything in what you said that indicates you would even be called as a witness with inside compelling evidence for the prosecution.
You are obviously very passionate about your opinion. Believe it or not, I am empathetic to that. But you should realize by now, I'm just as passionate about the excesses of the anti-smoking crusades and the way this unfair law whizzed throught the NY legislature without due process. This article was not posted to vindicate the Brigadiers, but to inform others of the possible improprieties of this whole bullshit waiver fiasco with health depts forcing people to open their books to justify a waiver to a law which denies them from exercising their personal property rights in the first place. I'm seen nothing from you yet that indicates you're even interested in that.
Look, I have a little advice for you as well. I have the feeling that you aren't here to learn about the smoking ban at all. You also don't seem to be aware of and may or may not be interested in the hundreds of small business owners across NY feeling the drastic effects of this draconian law on their livlihoods which is diminishing their standard of living. Instead it appears you are here for the sole purpose of trying to hijack this thread and take it on a tangent to try to educate us on what you feel are the excesses and improprieties of those associated with the Brigadiers, who obviously cause you some grief. Until you realize that fighting for the rights of people like the owner of the Middleport Inn who was forced to close down her family owned business because waiver provisions weren't even considered for her and the hundreds out there in similar situations are one of my main concerns right now, and I see you feign a little more than obligatory interest before going into your story, then what makes you think you'll be able to convince me that I should be interested in your story? Think about it for a minute.