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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers Will Rogers Jr. & the Battle for St.Vith (Dec/1944) - Oct. 1st, 2003
www.military.com ^ | Calvin C. Boykin, Jr.

Posted on 10/01/2003 12:00:05 AM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


...................................................................................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

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The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

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Where the Freeper Foxhole introduces a different veteran each Wednesday. The "ordinary" Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who participated in the events in our Country's history. We hope to present events as seen through their eyes. To give you a glimpse into the life of those who sacrificed for all of us - Our Veterans.

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"Get me Lieutenant Rogers!"

Son of a famous American entertainer,
Lieutenant Will Rogers, Jr.,
distinguished himself on the battlefields of Europe.


Will Rogers was a man for all seasons -- a Cherokee Indian and a cowboy, a champion roper, a leading master of ceremonies and raconteur, a top box office draw and the writer of a daily newspaper column. Born in the Cherokee Nation in 1879, he traveled far and earned the affection of audiences worldwide before his untimely death in a plane crash near Point Barrow, Alaska, in 1935. To this day, he remains a household name.



Following in the footsteps of his famous humorist father proved challenging for Will Rogers, Jr. Nonetheless, the young Rogers strove mightily to match his father's accomplishments. The eldest of four children, he was born in 1911 in New York City while his father was performing with the Ziegfeld Follies.

After graduating from Beverly Hills High School, Rogers attended Stanford University, where he edited an off-campus newspaper, captained the polo team, served on the debating team and set a backstroke swimming record. At college graduation in 1935, Rogers was commissioned a second lieutenant of field artillery. Letting his commission lapse, he purchased The Beverly Hill Citizen newspaper and covered the Spanish Civil War as a correspondent during 1936 and 1937.

Patriotic Duty


Rogers' response to the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor was twofold. First, as a Democrat he filed for a seat in the 78th Congress, representing the 16th Congressional District of California. Second, he enlisted as a private in the Army. After Officer Candidate School training at Camp Roberts, Calif., Rogers was again commissioned a second lieutenant of field artillery. He was posted to Camp Hood, Texas, where tank-destroying weapons were being developed and units trained.


Congressman Will Rogers, Jr., ca. 1943-1944


Election to Congress required Rogers to leave active service. While in Congress he served on the Foreign Affairs Committee, visited England during the Blitz and helped write the Soldier Voting Bill. Once again seeking military service, however, he resigned from Congress in May 1944 and received reinstatement to active duty and his third commissioning as a second lieutenant. Pressing for combat duty, Rogers was attached to the 814th Tank Destroyer Battalion, which had reached England in mid-February 1944.

Mr. Rogers Goes To England


Activated on May 22, 1942, at Camp Polk, La., under the command of Colonel Severen T. Wallace, the battalion had moved to Camp Bowie, Texas, then to Camp Hood, where specialized individual and unit training prepared the soldiers to "seek, strike and destroy." At Camp Hood the 750-man battalion came under the command of Lt. Col. Robert Bruce Jones, a Georgia attorney and reserve officer. The 814th completed maneuvers in Louisiana in late 1943.

When it reached England, the 814th, equipped with 36 M10 tank destroyers, constituted a powerful anti-tank force. The M10 was diesel-powered and thinly armored, with an open-topped turret based on a standard Sherman M4A3 medium tank chassis. It was highly mobile and sported a 3-inch anti-aircraft gun. The Reconnaissance Company's main weapon was the Greyhound M8 light armored car, equipped with a 37mm gun and a coaxially mounted .30-caliber machine gun, while Headquarters Company had the M20 armored car, equipped with a .50-caliber machine gun.


M10 with 3" Gun
3in GMC M10 - Over 6000 were built in the USA. The British version was called the Wolverine. The basis was the M2A3/4 tank chasis. The hull was sloped and the turrent was partially counter-balanced. The M7 gun had a flat trajectory and was extremely accurate. This exceptional fighting vehicle saw action throughout the ETO.


Second Lieutenant Will Rogers, Jr., arrived shortly before the 814th moved from the English Midlands to a marshaling area on England's southern coast. Word spread that Will Rogers' son had joined the battalion, and many of the 814th gathered to watch him take command of 1st Platoon, Reconnaissance Company. The troops had a deep respect for Will Rogers, although they wondered whether his son could handle a combat leadership role.

Big Shoes To Fill


The 814th acted as service troops in England during the Normandy invasion in June 1944, but their time came in August, when they loaded up on LSTs (landing ships, tank). On August 8, 1944, the 814th landed at Utah Beach, and on August 11 the battalion was attached to the 7th Armored Division, part of General George Patton's Third Army. Major General Lindsay MacDonald Silvester, commander of the 7th Armored, split the 814th among his three combat commands, and the division began its advance across France. On numerous occasions, Rogers' 1st Platoon was assigned to lead the armor in the breakout from the hedgerows of Normandy


The M8 light armored car was the only armored car used by the US Army in combat during World War II. Originally developed for the Tank Destroyer force. Approx. 420 M8 armored cars were used primarily by Bn Recon Co.
A command and utility version of the M8, the M20 armored utility car, also saw extensive use during the war.


When the artillery of the 7th Armored fired on the city of Chartres, the order was passed down to spare its historic sites. Many former members of the 814th believe that the word to spare the Chartres cathedral came from none other than Lieutenant Rogers.

Touring Historic France


After reaching the World War I battlefields of Château-Thierry and Verdun, Patton's Third Army ran out of fuel. Members of the 814th Tank Destroyer Battalion later related how, encouraged by Rogers, some soldiers took advantage of this interlude to tour the historic site. They first visited the American Cemetery at St. Mihiel, then moved on to La Tranchée des Batonettes, where a trench cave-in during the Battle of Verdun had left no trace of the French soldiers in it save for their bayonets. Leading his reconnaissance platoon on patrol over a road through the World War I battlefield, replete with shell-pocks, trenches and barbed wire, Rogers conducted an impromptu history lesson over his radio. As he was explaining how a million men fell in the conflict between the French and the Germans, the sharp bark of his task force commander interrupted him: "Lieutenant Rogers -- let's fight one war at a time!"


Lieutenant Rogers and one of his noncommissioned officers, Sergeant Dwayne Deutcher, survey the French countryside. (Courtesy of Michael Deutcher)


When it was once again able to advance, the 7th Armored Division, including the 814th Tank Destroyer Battalion, suffered heavy losses in its attempts to take the fortress city of Metz on the Moselle River. Relieved by the 5th Infantry Division, the 7th Armored was attached to the First Army and, on September 25, began convoying to an assembly area near Maastricht, Holland.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: ardennesoffensive; battleofthebulge; belguim; freeperfoxhole; michaeldobbs; tankdestroyers; veterans; warriorwednesday; willrogersjr; wwii
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To: colorado tanker
QUOTES FROM: Heinz Guderian

"Der Kampf gegen die eigenen Oberen macht manchmal mehr Arbeit als gegen die Franzosen".
It is sometimes tougher to fight my superiors than the French. (when he got orders to stop and wait for the following infantry and tried to persuade his superiors that this would mean to throw away victory.)

"Der Motor des Panzers ist ebenso seine Waffe wie die Kanone".
The engine of the Panzer is a weapon just as the main-gun.

"Es gibt keine verzweifelten Lagen, es gibt nur verzweifelte Menschen".
There are no desperate situations, there are only desperate people.

"Man schlägt jemanden mit der Faust und nicht mit gespreizten Fingern".
You hit somebody with your fist and not with your fingers spread (meaning that you should concentrate your Panzers for one mighty push in one direction and not distribute them.)

"Klotzen, nicht Kleckern !".
Boot'em, don´t spatter'em (Guderians favourite expression and also qouted by Adolf Hitler at several occations)

141 posted on 10/01/2003 8:59:35 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: colorado tanker
I'm sure WWII vets would be amused that 50+ years later, SNAFU still applies to the U.S. military!

There is one tactical principal which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.

General George S. Patton Jr.

142 posted on 10/01/2003 9:02:07 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: SAMWolf
Boot'em, don´t spatter'em

Might have been a favorite expression of Hitler's, but I'm glad he didn't follow it. He spattered Russia instead of booting her - and the Russians ended up in Berlin.

143 posted on 10/01/2003 9:05:00 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Oddball: "A . . . tank can give you an . . . edge.")
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To: colorado tanker
Talk about a screwed up campaign! He kept shifting forces and objectives for a short term gain and lost the chance of getting to Moscow in 1941.
144 posted on 10/01/2003 9:07:20 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: SAMWolf
Good point, Sam. When the fight comes, you don't worry about what should have been or what might have been, you just use what you've got and fight like h$ll.
145 posted on 10/01/2003 9:09:03 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Oddball: "A . . . tank can give you an . . . edge.")
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To: SAMWolf
Yep. Moscow was the key and instead Hitler sent his forces galavanting off toward Baku. Military genius, indeed.
146 posted on 10/01/2003 9:13:14 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Oddball: "A . . . tank can give you an . . . edge.")
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To: colorado tanker
I believe Israel found some of these surplus WW-2 designs to be practical ...seeing that a soldier is likely to be called up from reserves when the nation is mobilized..sliding into a M-3 or a Sherman was probably a good fit..the operator remembering what he/she needed even if away for months or years.

Israel did something unique in the 60's..they began to inhouse toy around with the U.S. 105mm round..current to their M-48'S,M-60'S and Centurions.
IDF was able to make the 105 round penetrate heavier armor..and from a greater distance.

They could have gone to a 120mm tube when Merkava 1 came out..but opted for their special home made 105 rounds..which easily dispatched whatever Soviet armor they faced.
so too..the unique concept of Reactive armor..or 'Blazer Box'..which worked well in Lebanon against tank rounds..RPG's and missiles.

The relationship in sharing ordinance knowledge with the U.S. has benefited both nations.
After Gulf war 1..U.S. learned that Tomahawk and airdrop munitions were unable to penetrate some of Saddams deep layered Euro built facilities underground.
U.S. and Israel went jointly on deep penetrating nuclear munitions...micro warheads..with 'Boosted Fission' yields.

If Syria..N.K. and Iran do not smarten up..they will discover to their dismay..U.S.and Israel mean what they say.

Magach 6 [U.S. M60]..Magach 7 -M 60 with new turret in background

147 posted on 10/01/2003 9:15:23 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: SAMWolf
am enjoying todays thread and its variety....Enterprise is on..catch ya in a hour : )
148 posted on 10/01/2003 9:21:12 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
Pix of M-60A1's! I love the smell of diesel in the morning!

Well, gotta sign off. It's been fun, L.S.

149 posted on 10/01/2003 9:23:01 PM PDT by colorado tanker (Oddball: "A . . . tank can give you an . . . edge.")
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To: Light Speed; colorado tanker

I wonder if the Stryker could do this?

The Merkava has to have the lowest turret silhoutte I've ever seen.

150 posted on 10/01/2003 9:25:32 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: Light Speed
Thanks for the conversation.
151 posted on 10/01/2003 9:27:47 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: SAMWolf

152 posted on 10/01/2003 9:31:21 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
Looks like it could hide real good.


153 posted on 10/01/2003 9:33:06 PM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: snippy_about_it
I never did figure out why the US tanks always had such a large silhoutte.
154 posted on 10/01/2003 9:38:52 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: SAMWolf
Those Merkeva turrets have bolt on composite armor..the design has layers within to defeat penetrators cut jet..the armor takes the kinectic energy and passes it out longitudanally..away from beneath hull sction.
I guess maintenence shows up..replaces the armor module bloc which is bolt on.

Kinda hints that IDF understand they will encure hits....with maint/turnaround time..the unit is back online.

155 posted on 10/01/2003 10:32:20 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
I think the Abrams design to be just what was needed..as U.S. strategic power projection goes.
M1A1/A2 and other variants are *Fast,dependable and carry a good amount of ordinance.

Israels Mekava has a rear compartment which can carry troops in a pinch..also provides *Tray loading for munitions.
IDF needed to move soldiers in close proximity to Merkava for protection..hence a deisel over gas turbine..the Merkavas engine is in the front.
The Abrams being a gas turbine kicks out alot of heat..troops cannot walk behind Abrams very long close in for protection.
In Israels small confines.and terrian..Merkava needed to be deisel.
U.S. did not require troops to dismount like IDF..hence the Bradley's...and other light armor with speed.

2 different armies with different logistical needs.
Both countries tanks...zenith as to their battle environments.

156 posted on 10/01/2003 10:44:42 PM PDT by Light Speed
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To: Light Speed
The Israeli's have a good design for use in built up areas, the one place most other armor tries to avoid.
157 posted on 10/01/2003 10:53:05 PM PDT by SAMWolf (You're so vain I bet you think this tagline's about you...)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Victoria Delsoul; Light Speed; colorado tanker

M36 Slugger (NA)

M36 “Slugger” Tank Destroyer

By the time the battalion supported the 100th Infantry Division in January 1945, it was equipped with the M36 “Slugger” tank destroyer. Sluggers carried the most powerful US antitank weapon to see combat in WWII, the M3 90mm gun. This weapon was more than a match for the especially long-barrelled 75mm guns of the 21st Panzer Division’s Panthers encountered near Rimling, and was only outgunned by the behemoth 128mm main guns of the 653rd Heavy Tank Destroyer Battalion’s “Hunting Tigers” (Jagdtigers) that supported XIII SS Corps’ attack during Operation NORDWIND.

An unusual feature of this vehicle was that its turret was open-topped, to facilitate maximum observation for the commander and crew at the long ranges at which engagements with enemy tanks were envisioned by the designers. Unfortunately, it also meant that the turrent crews were vulnerable to shrapnel from above.

Despite these vulnerabilities, it was the crews of 776th TD Battalion Sluggers who scored the first kill of a Hunting Tiger ever recorded on the Western Front in the first week of January 1945, just outside Rimling!

M36 Slugger

Height: 10.4 feet
Width: 10 feet
Length: 19.6 feet
Weight: 30.5 tons

Combat radius (how far one can go on a tank of gasoline): 155 miles (road); 110 miles cross-country.

Armor

Front: 1.5 inches
Side: .75 inches
Turret Front: .75 inches
Turret Side: .75 inches
Mantlet (Armored shield on front of turret): 3 inches

Maximum Speed: 26 mph (road); 5 - 20 mph cross-country

Armament

Main Gun: 90mm M3 Muzzle velocity: 2,800 feet per second
Anti-aircraft Machine Gun: .50-caliber

(All data from Aberdeen Proving Ground Series)

Fond of halftracks, I called my ribbed-sole shoes halftracks, and scolded the minister at my baptism for getting water on my halftracks.

My first unpublished novel of 459 pages was Cadillac Loretta and the Day-Glo Halftrack, a story of two kids from the Heartland surviving nuclear war.

We have word of Kuwait busting $60 million worth of Iraqi biochem weapons and warheads en route to an unnamed European country.

No doubt the one filled with dirty, arrogant people who think they still matter.

Let us have the contraband heaped onto plates at a banquet so that Dan Rather, Peter Jennings, Ted Kennedy, Hillary Clinton and other notables may eat that which they denied existed.

Bon appetit!

158 posted on 10/02/2003 12:35:02 AM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
Hello Phil..great research and pics.

The U.S. military really proved the concept of recon..and recon that could engage or hold objectives until strength arrived.

Myself have allways liked the half track..and the quick heavy hitting M-24 Chaffee.



159 posted on 10/02/2003 12:47:13 AM PDT by Light Speed
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To: PhilDragoo
Morning PhilDragoo.

Thanks for the info on the "Slugger" and the pictures of the M8.
160 posted on 10/02/2003 1:57:26 AM PDT by SAMWolf (I'm tired of thinking up new Taglines.)
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