The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The Hurtgen Forest (Nov - Dec 1944) - Sep. 16th, 2003

Army Historical Foundation ^ | Robert S. Rush

[snippy_about_it]

'Tis a strange place where normal thinking holds no sway.

LOL.

Neither does logical thinking. I tried it and it failed as always. I don't know why I even bother.

[Darksheare]

Well, it was worth the attempt.
Logical thinking often imbalances the furies that control 'that realm', and will often lead to many an amusing meeting.

[snippy_about_it]

Good morning Jinxy.

[snippy_about_it]

Good Morning w/w.

I'm getting ready to read the thread at lunch today. I've heard of it of course, however I know today I will learn the details. :)

[SAMWolf]

I still European Air War on my machine.

I've played all three Half-Life games and am waiting for Half_life 2. Good series. I liked Opposing Force best

For a good tongue in check game, play "No One Lives Forever"

NOLF2 just came out, on my list of games to get.

[Darksheare]

Waiting on Half-Life 2 as well.
Saw the 'game engine demonstartor' demo and am waiting for it to launch.
Fall '03..

NOLF, gonna have to look it up.

[SAMWolf]

It's a first person shooter, but done tongue-in-check, it's a fun game.

[SAMWolf]

How and why so many wonderful young people were sacrificed and for what purpose poses an interesting question. It has been said that the battle for the Hürtgen Forest was based on a plan that was grossly, even criminally stupid. There does not appear to be any arguments to the contrary. The statement that, "The months-long battle of the Hürtgen Forest was a loser that our top brass never seemed to want to talk about" seems to say it all. Who can be blamed? Probably no one person in particular, but just about everyone who had anything to do with its planning or its implementation.

Headquarters personnel from battalion on up to Corps and Army found themselves good billets and seldom strayed near the front. Of course there were notable exceptions, but in general the American officers handing down the orders to attack and assigning the objectives had no idea what it was like at the front. Combat veterans said that only on the rarest of occasions was any officer above the rank of captain or officer from the staff ever seen.

The first step down the road to this disaster can be traced to the following order:

COMBAT UNITS ARE AUTHORIZED TO BASE DAILY REPLACEMENT REQUISITIONS ON ANTICIPATED LOSSES FORTY EIGHT HOURS IN ADVANCE TO EXPEDITE DELIVERY OF REPLACEMENTS. TO AVOID BUILDING UP OVER STRENGTH, ESTIMATES SHOULD BE MADE WITH CARE. SIGNED EISENHOWER.

This order was based on the necessity of providing replacements for battle losses in time to insure that the initiative would not be lost in battle situations where the enemy was on the run but might recover if replacements were not quickly available. Unfortunately, the order enabled inept staff officers to bring in replacements at such a fast pace that companies and even divisions could take tremendous losses that only could be acceptable because of this replacement policy. The officers making these decisions were never close enough to the front lines to be in danger themselves so they were always around to continue to make more costly mistakes.

At the Hürtgen Forest battle, it was Generals Bradley and General Hodges who were responsible for these costly mistakes. They used this procedure but failed to put into place any checks to determine if this policy could be causing excessive loss of troops. This was the weakness of the plan and unfortunately, no one ever bothered to check it out.

The blame for this catastrophe was a failure of the generals at the highest levels. The officers from the level of captain down to freshly commissioned lieutenants and enlisted men from sergeants down to the newest recruits, performed and died with such courage that all Americans should be forever proud of them. Taking the time to read this account and consider its implications might diminish the possibility of this type of disaster happening again. Then again, maybe not.

Ernest A. Herr

[Darksheare]

I know, I've seen it and eyeballed it a few times.
I'll just have to see what it's current price is.
(I'm a penny pincher when it comes to such things..)

[snippy_about_it]

Thank you SAM for the story of the The Hurtgen Forest.

It was a miserable place to fight, not that there are any good places, but some better than others I expect.




Grosshau, Germany 1944

[snippy_about_it]

RAY, BERNARD J. (POSTHUMOUSLY)

RANK AND ORGANIZATION: First Lieutenant, U.S. Army, Company F, 8th Infantry, 4th Infantry Division.



PLACE AND DATE: Hurtgen Forest near Schevenhutte, Germany, 17 November 1944.

ENTERED SERVICE AT: Baldwin, New York

BORN: Brooklyn, New York

G.O. # 115, 8 December 1945

CITATION: He was platoon leader with Company F, 8th Infantry, on 17 November 1944, during the drive through the Hurtgen Forest near Schevenhutte, Germany. The American forces attacked in wet, bitterly cold weather over rough, wooded terrain, meeting brutal resistance from positions spaced throughout the forest behind mine fields and wire obstacles. Small arms, machine gun, mortar, and artillery fire caused heavy casualties in the ranks when Company F was halted by a concertina type wire barrier.

Under heavy fire, 1st Lt. Ray reorganized his men and prepared to blow a path through the entanglement, a task which appeared impossible of accomplishment and from which others tried to dissuade him. With implacable determination to clear the way, he placed explosive caps in his pockets, obtained several bangalore torpedoes, and then wrapped a length of highly explosive primer cord about his body. He dashed forward under direct fire, reached the barbed wire and prepared his demolition charge as mortar shell, which were being aimed at him alone, came steadily nearer his completely exposed position.

He had placed a torpedo under the wire and was connecting it to a charge he carried when he was severely wounded by a bursting mortar shell. Apparently realizing that he would fail in his self imposed mission unless he completed it in a few moments, he made a supremely gallant decision.

With the primer cord still wound about his body and the explosive caps in his pocket, he completed a hasty wiring system and unhesitatingly thrust down on the handle of the charger, destroying himself with the wire barricade in the resulting blast. By the deliberate sacrifice of his life, 1st Lt. Ray enabled his company to continue its attack, resumption of which was of positive significance in gaining the approaches to the Cologne Plain.

[snippy_about_it]

Great additional info on the Generals and who was "in charge". Are you reading my mind?

[Darksheare]

Ouch.
Split second decision to save the rest of the group and complete the task at hand by detting himself.
God grant him peace for his decision, I'm sure it was pretty hard to make.

[snippy_about_it]

God grant him peace for his decision, I'm sure it was pretty hard to make.

Amen, Darksheare.

Thanks.

[SAMWolf]

The original should be pretty cheap now unless the bumped up the price with the release of NOLF2.

[SAMWolf]

With the primer cord still wound about his body and the explosive caps in his pocket, he completed a hasty wiring system and unhesitatingly thrust down on the handle of the charger, destroying himself with the wire barricade in the resulting blast. By the deliberate sacrifice of his life, 1st Lt. Ray enabled his company to continue its attack, resumption of which was of positive significance in gaining the approaches to the Cologne Plain.

I never cease to be amazed at the quality of men this country produces.

[SAMWolf]

Yeah, you'd almost swear it was a Monty operation wouldn't you.

[SAMWolf]

The Hürtgen Forest, covering roughly fifty square miles just south of ancient city of Aachen along the German- Belgium border, was described by those who were there, as a "weird and wild" place. It was not a primeval forest but it was hand planted in modern times at the order of the German General staff to take the most advantage of every hill and valley using the thick spruce and balsams squat limbs to the ground like football linemen challenging advance. Here "the near one hundred feet tall dark pine trees and dense tree-tops gave the place, even in daytime, a somber appearance which was apt to cast gloom upon sensitive people." It was like a green cave, always dripping water, the firs interlocked their lower limbs so that everyone had to stoop, all the time. The forest floor, in almost perpetual darkness, was devoid of underbrush. Add to this gloom, a mixture of sleet, snow, rain, cold, fog and almost knee deep mud. This was to be setting for the most tragic battle of World War II.

After the war, German General Rolf van Gersdorff commented, "I have engaged in the long campaigns in Russia as well as other fronts and I believe the fighting in the Hürtgen was the heaviest I have ever witnessed." Still, the Germans were delighted that the Americans wanted to throw their weight into an attack against dug-in troops in a forest where the American preponderance of artillery and command of the air would be of little value. Also, delighting the Germans was that the Hürtgen Forest was of little military value and, if lost to the Americans, could be flooded since the Germans held flood control dams above the level of the forest. It was a battle that the Germans really couldn't loose.

Both German and American troops fighting here had to share these deplorable conditions: exposed to incessant enemy fire, fighting daily without relief, receiving little support from their own artillery, drenched in frequent rain, and without the possibility of changing clothes. Forsaken as they were they had no choice but to hold out and die in hopeless resignation. Oddly enough, one-half of the Americans who fought here had German - American ancestry which meant that three quarters of all the combatants in the Hürtgen Forest were either German or of German origin.

When American troops (the 78th Division), who had fought in Sicily, Italy, Normandy and Holland, finally took the forest, they said they had never seen anything that could compare to this for the amount of shattered military equipment scattered throughout and the countless American bodies.. They saw the 112th Regiment's dead, still by their vehicles in the snow, telephones and maps intact in the bunker Command Post, on top of which a Tiger tank had squatted, shooting the Yanks as they emerged. They referred to this as death valley. What the British staff officer said after inspecting the Somme battlefield in France during the First World War could have very well applied here. He cried out, "My God: Did we really send men to fight in this?"

Those that fought the battle from the American side were mostly from the high school classes of 1942, 1943 and 1944. They were to pick up the battle and move on after the classes of 1940 and 1941 had driven this far to the German border but now were too few in numbers to press on. These mostly still teenagers included championship high school football teams, class presidents, those that had sung in the spring concerts, those that were in the class plays, the wizards of the chemistry classes, rich kids, bright kids.

There were sergeants with college degrees along with privates from Yale and Harvard. America was throwing her finest young men at the Germans. These youths had come from all sections of the country and from every major ethnic group except the African - American and the Japanese - American. Due to an Army policy in force at the time, these two groups did not participate in this battle.

The training these young men had gone through at State-side posts such as Fort Benning was rigorous physically but severely short on the tactical and leadership challenges that the junior officers would have to meet. British General Horrocks (one of the few generals, if not the only general to do so) made a surprise front line visit to the 84th division and described these young men as "an impressive product of American training methods which turned out division after division complete, fully equipped. The divisions were composed of splendid, very brave, tough young men." But he thought it was too much to ask of a green divisions to penetrate strong defense lines, then stand up to counter attacks from first-class German divisions.

And he was disturbed by the failure of American division and corps commanders and their staffs to ever visit the front lines. He was greatly concerned to find that the men were not even getting hot meals brought up from the rear, in contrast to the forward divisions in the British line. He reported that not even battalion commanders were going to the front. Senior officers and staff didn't know what they were ordering their rifle companies to do. They did their work from maps and over radios and telephones. And unlike the company and platoon leaders, who had to be replaced every few weeks at best, or every few days at worst, the staff officers took few casualties, so the same men stayed at the same job, doing it badly.

When Capt. John O'Grady of Ninth Army's Historical Section visited the Forest in late November, he sent back a memorandum to Ninth Army: "On 23rd November the battalion was attacking a superior German force entrenched on an excellent position. The only thing that higher headquarters contributed to the debacle was pressure, and God only knows where the pressure started, perhaps Corps or perhaps Army. It had the effect of ordering men to die needlessly."

O'Grady was furious: "Tactics and maneuver on battalion or regiment scale were conspicuous by their absence. It never seemed to occur to anyone that the plan might be wrong; but rather the indictment was placed on the small unit commanders and the men who were doing the fighting. The companies went into battle against the formidable Siegfried Line with hand grenades and rifle bullets against pillboxes. The 84th Division walked into the most touted defensive line in modern warfare without so much as the benefit of a briefing by combat officers."

These were the magnificent kids of the American high school classes of 1942, 43 and 44 and while thousands of German soldiers were executed for desertion during this time period, only one American soldier was executed for the same offense, remarkably demonstrating the patriotism and devotion to duty of this group. That this patriotism and devotion was so abused and never recognized even to this day should be cause for a heavy heart. If there ever were a group of Americans for whom a tear should be shed, this would be the group.

Ernest A. Herr

[Prof Engineer]

1782 Great Seal of US used for 1st time

Woo Hoo!

[Light Speed]

Hurtgen forest...the primary battle zone...just 20 miles long by 10 miles wide,

Nick names abounded..such as.."Green Hell","A Hell of Icicles"..."The Death Factory".

After reading the intro to todays Foxhole...noticed some important info as per the U.S. frontal power projection seen at Hurtgen.

Military types convey the reality of a 3-4 to 1 strength required to dislodge an entrenched and organized defender.
This math proved true at Hurtgen.

During Hurtgen..the use of recon coupled with Tank Destroyers paid strong dividends..but the cost was high.

The M-10 T.D.[Tank Destroyer]..with its specialized 76mm gun and special armor peircing round was devasting..but the thin skinned U.S. T.D.'s were no match in a slugfest with German armor or anti tank rounds.
The M-36 Jackson T.D. made its appearence in theatre..with its 90mm gun..it packed a wollop..and nearly blinded tank crews in their open turrets.

Something i noticed in research today about Hurtgen was the injury factor from exploding ordinance in the tree's.

Soldiers tried there best to move and allign themselves with formations of varied scale....while wood splinters and shrapnell shredded them like something from a civil war period advance into 'Cannister fire'..or 'Grape shot'.

So many were wounded and trying to stay in cohesion..with little possible evac option for surgery.

Movement near Hurtgen and inside it meant recieving flank fire and ambush.

To free up roads and minimze ambush..units were told to hold the line..the injured had to cope.

The weather was unmerciful..the cold rain..the damp.
Hurtgen Forrest carries the analysis of bad choice making...yet the Command of the U.S. Forces in ETO learned their Men could fight..improvise and endure.

M-10 T.D. on left..M-36 on right

M-36