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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The 1st and 2nd Guadalcanal Nov 13-15, 1942 - Dec. 29th, 2002
http://www.angelfire.com/ia/totalwar/Guadalcanal.html ^

Posted on 12/29/2002 12:03:19 AM PST by SAMWolf

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To: SAMWolf
Hey, Sam! Good morning! :)
41 posted on 12/29/2002 9:10:15 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA; Cyber-Band; conservativemusician
2003's the year, my FRiend...MUD
42 posted on 12/29/2002 9:12:20 AM PST by Mudboy Slim
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To: AntiJen
How did I know that was going to happen?

Take care of yourself and get well.
43 posted on 12/29/2002 9:12:30 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: SAMWolf; DoughtyOne; Jim Robinson

Thanks, Doughty!

44 posted on 12/29/2002 9:13:22 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: facedown
Good photos, facedown. Thanks.

I always wonder how many photos are in private hands that no one has seen.
45 posted on 12/29/2002 9:14:26 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: SAMWolf
I thought it was interesting. Thanks.
46 posted on 12/29/2002 9:14:30 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: Taxman
Thanks for sharing that story with us taxman. We thank your father for his service.

"Fighter Two - Guadalcanal"

47 posted on 12/29/2002 9:22:26 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: alfa6
Thanks for the link!

It looks pretty good and has links to other sites. Some good material there.
48 posted on 12/29/2002 9:24:21 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: Mudboy Slim
I sure do hope so, Mud! I would love to think so, Mud! I hope you are right, Mud! thanks for the prediction! Any other way I can possibly support that opinion??? :)
49 posted on 12/29/2002 9:27:10 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: SAMWolf
There must be tons, I would think. My uncle has a lot of WW2 pictures, but I don't remember my dad having any. My uncle said the guys weren't allowed to be carrying cameras, but the German's had them. He said that was one of the first things he took from a dead German.
50 posted on 12/29/2002 9:30:48 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: alfa6
Thanks alfa6.

I loved Willie and Joe (I saw them as reprints and in "Up Front") and remember reading Mauldin's Editorial cartoons in the SunTimes as a kid.
51 posted on 12/29/2002 9:32:47 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: SAMWolf
I always wonder how many photos are in private hands that no one has seen.

Bazillions. Consider all those shoeboxes in attics that are "just grampa's old stuff".

52 posted on 12/29/2002 9:34:22 AM PST by facedown
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To: SAMWolf
Guadalcanal-Tulagi Operation, August 1942

Japanese Navy Type 1 land attack planes (later nicknamed "Betty") fly low through anti-aircraft gunfire during a torpedo attack on U.S. Navy ships maneuvering between Guadalcanal and Tulagi in the morning of 8 August 1942. Note that these planes are being flown without bomb-bay doors.

53 posted on 12/29/2002 9:38:12 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: SAMWolf
I too have a copy of Up Front as well as a reprint of many of the Mauldin cartoons from WWII. Already mentioned was the ol Sarge and his jeep but another good one was the three guys sharing the bottle of vino with seven hands. I will try and get mey daughter to scan it for me later and post it.

Must go for now but will be back later

Regards

alfa6 ;>}
54 posted on 12/29/2002 9:40:56 AM PST by alfa6
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To: SAMWolf
>
Battle of the Eastern Solomons, August 1942

A Japanese bomb exploding on the flight deck of USS Enterprise (CV-6), just aft of the island, on 24 August 1942. Note: According to the original photo caption, this explosion killed the photographer, Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Robert F. Read. However, Morison's "History of U.S. Naval Operations in World War II" (volume 5, page 97) states that Read was killed by the bomb that had earlier hit the after starboard 5"/38 gun gallery, which can be seen burning in the upper left. Morison further states that the bomb seen here exploded with a low order detonation, inflicting only minor damage.

55 posted on 12/29/2002 9:44:45 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA; All
The "Long Lance" Torpedo

It was perhaps the best torpedo of the war. What made it so good? Several things made the oxygen type "Long Lance" torpedo "so good."

Size: while the difference between a 21" and a 24" torpedo in diameter is not that much, the warhead on the larger one varies by the ol' "pi" ratio. The Japanese warhead was also longer in relative terms, making for a much more deadly load on the target.

Simplicity: The development of the Japanese oxygen torpedo started in earnest back in the 1920's, and it was a "mature" weapon by the 1940's. Other nations tried to produce them as well (England and France, for example), but gave up as they felt the hazard was not worth the benefits. The Japanese continued in their efforts, and partially succeeded. The IJN also did not flirt with the magnetic exploder as did the US, Germany and Great Britain.

Speed: Oxygen torpedoes have two benefits: lack of combustion byproducts that leave a wake (most notably nitrogen; air torpedoes have less oxidizer (oxygen) and more inert gasses (nitrogen primarily) in their air flasks), and range (pure oxygen takes up less space than the same amount of oxygen as a component of air (tops of 20% by volume); more space for fuel and oxidizer. Oxygen oxidized flames also burn hotter (better combustion), so a given amount of fuel could stretch farther. All this translated out into going further faster.

I don't have the figures with me, but I think that the top speed on our torpedoes (which only allowed a very short range) was well below the lower speed on the Japanese torpedo (which allowed a range that was so great we had trouble believing that it actually could occur). At their top speed, the things zipped along near 50 knots (compared to a top ship speed of 37 knots or so) out to a distance that was greater than our "close range". Faster to the target means less time to evade, hence more accurate. Longer range meant that we found ourselves surprised by Japanese torpedo attacks on at least three occasions, thinking that we ran over mines as there was no way that the nearest Japanese forces could have torpedoed us. We were, of course, wrong. The sinking of the USS Wasp, damage to the USS North Carolina, and fatal damage to a destroyer (don't recall the name; USS Edsall perhaps?) all by _one_ torpedo salvo from a single Japanese submarine, remains the greatest monument to Japanese torpedo systems (and to the American refusal to believe that someone else could do something better than us).

Skads of them: Japanese ships were heavy on torpedo tubes, and even heavier on reloads. Some Japanese destroyers could reload twice, and could complete the reload cycle in twenty minutes or so. This tends to put more torpedoes in the water, increasing the likelihood of hits

Systems: The Japanese put a lot of effort into their torpedo warfare, much moreso than the rest of the world. They saw the torpedo as an equalizer for the inferiority of size that they were persuaded to accept as part of the naval treaties entered into post WWI. They integrated the torpedo attack at both the destroyer and the cruiser levels (whereas most other nations made the destroyer use a "second function" and pretty well ignored the cruiser level (although some early US cruisers had tubes, they were almost completely abandoned by World War II (and for some pretty good reasons, see below). Torpedo directors were a major part of surface ship fire control systems, not a addon as found elsewhere.

Skills: They practiced their doctrine, firing real torpedoes all the while, and not in the fairy tale conditions of the Caribbean Sea, either. Japanese training was intensive, brutal (the North Pacific during the winter is not a tranquil place) and all encompassing. Unlike shells, torpedoes could be fired and recovered to fire again in a training situation. The IJN had a whole class of torpedo support craft (covered in post war intelligence reports by the USN, by the way).

Stupidity (American): A lot of the IJN's success was due to the USN fighting a war that fit the IJN's doctrine. Early on, we persisted in using radar like it was eyesight, maneuvering in formations that suited the Japanese proclivity for torpedo attacks, and misusing one of the American "secret weapons" (the automatic loading 6" light cruiser) to almost a criminal extent. Once we got things sorted out, we did a lot better. The Japanese did a lot of stupid things too; somewhere in 1943 or thereabouts both sides straightened themselves out and the good aspects of both navies produced some interesting surface combats. At that point, the torpedo was nowhere near as dominant as it was when we were feeling our way early on.

In short, there were a number of factors that combined to make the Japanese torpedo threat so effective during World War II. The torpedoes themselves were only one of many such factors that made it a success (from the Japanese point of view, of course).

The "all torpedo approach" to light forces has its disadvantages. One is time on target for the weapons system; the torpedo can be avoided while the 6" shell cannot. Another is the massive concentration of explosives outside of the warship's protective systems. This is why the US gave up on torpedoes on cruisers. The Japanese lost one ship (don't remember which one) when the torpedoes were touched off by otherwise minor gunnery damage, and they did jettison torpedoes on more than one occasion when this was threatened. Torpedoes are also expensive compared to main gun rounds, even when you compare the number of the shells that have to be fired to get the same effect.

One more thing: not all Japanese torpedoes were of the "Long Lance" variety. They also had 21" torpedoes on many of their submarines and some older surface ships. All of their torpedoes were well made (albeit mostly hand fabricated) and functioned well, according to post war tests by the Naval Intelligence Mission to Japan. The report (available on cheap microfilm from the Naval History Center in Washington DC) will tell you more than you ever want to know about the subject...

56 posted on 12/29/2002 9:59:59 AM PST by SAMWolf
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To: MistyCA

Lt. Cdr. John T. "Tommy" Blackburn

C.O. of Jolly Rogers, Fighting Squadron 17 (VF-17)

Navy Corsair ace, downed 11 Japanese aircraft over the Solomons in WWII

57 posted on 12/29/2002 10:06:18 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: SAMWolf
Whew! OK, that was quite a war and I am pooped now! :) See you a little later! :)
58 posted on 12/29/2002 10:09:21 AM PST by MistyCA
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To: MistyCA; AntiJen
"Any other way I can possibly support that opinion??? :)"

I'll be in touch, my FRiend...MUD

59 posted on 12/29/2002 10:20:18 AM PST by Mudboy Slim
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To: SAMWolf
I realize this is way off topic, but its my hopes to reach any men and/or women in the military who could perhaps take up the idea and improve upon it.

It occured to me last night that in the face of all the anti-Western, anti-American hatred leveled at the good citizens who run this country ie the businessmen, the families, the middle class etc., what may need to be resurrected is a good bit of old fashioned American defiance in the form of music.

I was reading a book to my daughter last night called "Emma's Journal" which is a very good little book written in first person about a fictional ten year old girl living in Boston at the time of the Amer. Revolution, with many detailed accounts of what life was like and the hardships they faced and the different attitudes people had about the war.

The author included two songs that were popular at the time, one of them being 'Yankee Doodle.'

"Every day there is a new song mocking the British - now 'tis 'Yankee Doodle,' which was their song insulting us, the Yankees. Now 'tis their turn to be insulted by it."

AND (this one is a bit ribald)

"How brave you went out with your muskets all bright
and thought to befrighten the folks with the sight,
But when you got there, how they powdered your pums,
and all the way home how they peppered your bums,
And is it now, honies, a comical farce, to be proud in the face and be shot in the a*se."

I just thought wouldnt it be wonderful to breathe new life into an American classic and make our point through music. We already have the melody in 'Yankee Doodle'...it was a song to put Americans down, and in our fine spirit, we turned it around and used it against the British.

I don't see why we could not still use it to fly in the face of all the Euroweenies and Leftists who today still parrot the elitist snobbery against us. I see it as a way of thumbing our noses at the elitists who call Americans 'dumb' and 'cowboys.' Cowboys have an excellent sense of humor. And it wouldnt be necessary that the elitists get the joke. We know who we are talking about in singing 'Yankee Doodle

I also think our wonderful military men and women are the best ones to come up with new lyrics for "Yankee Doodle" making fun of the Islamofascists and sing it in their faces every time we defeat them!!

60 posted on 12/29/2002 10:26:10 AM PST by Alkhin
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