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To: snippy_about_it

The B-25 was really a great airplane. Does anybody know how it compared to our other medium bombers? Say the B-26.

They must have preferred it over the B-26 as they seemed to use the B-25 almost exclusively in the Brenner Pass campaign.


22 posted on 01/21/2007 9:55:01 PM PST by sasportas
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; bentfeather; Samwise; Peanut Gallery; Wneighbor; Valin; alfa6; Iris7; ...
Catch 22 Bump for the Monday Freeper Foxhole.

Off to work I must go back tonight

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

23 posted on 01/22/2007 2:59:09 AM PST by alfa6 (Taxes are seldom levied for the benefit of the taxed.)
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To: sasportas
Does anybody know how it compared to our other medium bombers? Say the B-26.

I will try to answer your question tonight when I get home from work.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

24 posted on 01/22/2007 3:00:38 AM PST by alfa6 (Taxes are seldom levied for the benefit of the taxed.)
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To: sasportas

In preparation for large-scale introduction of the Marauder into combat, the USAAF had set up B-26 Transition Training Fields at MacDill Field, Tampa, Florida and at Barksdale Field, Shreveport, Louisiana. Nine new USAAF medium bomber groups had been activated in 1942 as Marauder-equipped units.

Unfortunately, many of the pilots trying to master the Marauder at these fields had no previous twin-engined experience. In 1942, a series of training accidents took place stateside which placed the future of the entire Marauder program in doubt. Most of these accidents took place during takeoff or landing. The increases in weight that had been gradually introduced on the B-26 production line had made the wing loading of the Marauder progressively higher and higher, resulting in higher stalling and landing speeds. Veteran pilots in combat overseas had enough experience that they could handle these higher speeds, but new trainees at home had serious problems and there were numerous accidents, causing the Marauder to earn such epithets as "The Flying Prostitute", "The Baltimore Whore", "The Flying Vagrant", or "The Wingless Wonder", these names being given because the B-26's small wing area appeared to give it no visible means of support. Other derisive names being given to the B-26 were "The Widow Maker", "One-Way Ticket", "Martin Murderer", "The Flying Coffin", "The Coffin Without Handles", and the "B-Dash Crash". In particular, there were so many takeoff accidents at MacDill Field during early 1942 that the phrase "One a Day Into Tampa Bay" came to be a commonplace lament.

The USAAF was concerned about the high accident rate and seriously considered withdrawing the Marauder from production and service. The US Senate's Special Committee to Investigate the National Defense Program (better known as the Truman Committee, after its chairman, Sen. Harry S. Truman of Missouri), which had been charged with ferreting out corruption, waste, and mismanagement in the military procurement effort, also began looking into the Marauder's safety record. By July, the Committee had heard so many Marauder horror stories that they recommended that B-26 production be stopped. However, combat crews in the South Pacific, who were more experienced, were not reporting any particular problems with the airplane, and they went to bat for the Marauder. They exerted pressure, and the USAAF decided to continue with production of the Marauder.

However, by September of 1942, the situation had gotten even worse and training accidents had become even more frequent. By that time, the reputation of the Marauder had gotten so bad that civilian crews contracted to ferry USAAF aircraft to their destinations were often quitting their jobs rather than having to ferry a B-26. The Air Safety Board of the USAAF was forced to initiate an investigation into the cause. In October, the Truman Committee was again on the warpath and once again recommended that production of the B-26 be discontinued.

USAAF commanding General Henry H. Arnold directed that Brig. Gen. James H. Doolittle (fresh from his famous Tokyo raid) investigate the problem with the B-26 personally. Doolittle had recently been given command of the B-26-equipped 4th Medium Bombardment Wing, which was scheduled to take part in the invasion of North Africa.

Both General Doolittle and the Air Safety Board concluded that there was nothing intrinsically wrong with the B-26, and there was no reason why it should be discontinued. They traced the problem to the inexperience of both aircrews and ground crews, and also to the overloading of the aircraft beyond the weight at which it could be safely flown on one engine only. Almost immediately after the Marauder had entered service, it had been found necessary to add more and more equipment, armament, fuel, and armor, driving the gross weight steadily upwards. By early 1942, the B-26 had risen in normal gross weight from its original 26,625 pounds to 31,527 pounds with no increase in power. It had been found that many of the accidents had been caused by engine failures, which were in turn caused by a combination of poor maintenance by relatively green mechanics and a change from 100 octane fuel to 100 octane aromatic fuel, which damaged the diaphragm of the carburetors. Many of the B-26 instructors were almost as green as the pilots they were trying to train, and did not know themselves how to fly the B-26 on one engine only, and so could not teach the technique to their students.

General Doolittle sent his technical adviser, Captain Vincent W. "Squeak" Burnett, to make a tour of OTU bases to demonstrate how the B-26 could be flown safely. These demonstrations included single-engine operations, slow-flying characteristics, and recoveries from unusual flight attitudes. Capt. Burnett made numerous low altitude flights with one engine out, even turning into a dead engine (which aircrews were warned never to do), proving that the Marauder could be safely flown if you knew what you were doing. Martin also sent engineers out into the field to show crews how to avoid problems caused by overloading, by paying proper attention to the plane's center of gravity.

The efforts of the Army and Martin to improve training soon began to pay off, and accidents at training fields began to fall off, and within a month had reached a fairly low level. The Truman Committee finally relented, and stopped its demands for the cessation of Marauder production. Nevertheless, the derogatory nicknames still persisted, and word had not gotten down to the grass roots level that the problems with the B-26 had been identified and corrected. Student pilots still believed the popular legend that the B-26 was a deathtrap, and very few graduates requested assignment to a B-26 group.

The A-20 was designed to meet an Army Air Corps attack specification in 1938 but was in use by the French and British before delivery to US squadrons. Begun as a company- funded venture, the Havoc eventually became the most-produced Army Air Forces attack aircraft. It was also the one of the first US combat aircraft to have a nosewheel. On July 4, 1942, the first Army Air Forces bomber mission over Western Europe was flown by US crews of the 15th Bomb Squadron operating British Bostons IIIs (the Royal Air Force's name for most of their Havocs) against airfields in the Netherlands. The A-20 was used in every theater of the war and was also flown by Australia, Brazil, South Africa, and the Netherlands. The Soviets actually received more A-20s than the US did, but little is known about the type's operational career there. Some of the Dutch aircraft were captured by the Japanese and appropriated into service. The export version of the A-20C was the first aircraft to be ordered under a lend-lease contract. The P-70 was a modified A-20 fitted with an airborne intercept radar and four 20-mm cannon in a belly package as an interim night fighter until the P-61 was available. The F-3A was the photoreconnaissance version.

The A-26, the last aircraft designated as an "attack bomber," was designed to replace the Douglas A-20 Havoc/Boston. It incorporated many improvements over the earlier Douglas designs. The first three XA-26 prototypes first flew in July 1942, and each was configured differently: Number One as a daylight bomber with a glass nose, Number Two as a gun-laden night-fighter, and Number Three as a ground-attack platform, with a 75-millimeter cannon in the nose. This final variant, eventually called the A-26B, was chosen for production.

Upon its delivery to the 9th Air Force in Europe in November 1944 (and the Pacific Theater shortly thereafter), the A-26 became the fastest US bomber of WWII. The A-26C, with slightly-modified armament, was introduced in 1945. The A-26s combat career was cut short by the end of the war, and because no other use could be found for them, many A-26s were converted to JD-1 target tugs for the US Navy.

A strange aircraft-designation swap occurred in 1948, when the Martin B-26 Marauder was deactivated and the Douglas A-26 was re-designated the B-26. (It kept this designation until 1962.) B-26s went on to serve extensively in both the Korean and Vietnam wars. In Vietnam, they were commonly used in the Counter-Insurgency (COIN) role, with very heavy armament and extra power. This version, the B-26K, was based in Thailand and was, to confuse things further, called the A-26 for political reasons. B-26s were also used for training, VIP transport, cargo, night reconnaissance, missile guidance and tracking, and as drone-control platforms.

35 posted on 01/22/2007 3:00:00 PM PST by SAMWolf (To learn about paranoids, follow them around)
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To: sasportas; SAMWolf; All
I see SAMWolf has kicked in some info on the B-26 so let me see what I can come up with as a side by side comparison.

Performance numbers from Wikipedia

B-25J performance figures
* Maximum speed: 275 mph (239 knots, 442 km/h)
* Cruise speed: 230 mph (200 knots, 370 km/h)
* Combat radius: 1,350 mi (1,170 nm, 2,170 km)
* Ferry range: 2,700 mi (2,300 nm, 4,300 km)
* Service ceiling: 25,000 ft (7,600 m)
* Rate of climb: 790 ft/min (4 m/s)
* Wing loading: 55 lb/ft² (270 kg/m²)
* Power/mass: 0.110 hp/lb (182 W/kg)

Crew: six (two pilots, navigator/bombardier, turret gunner/engineer, radio operator/waist gunner, tail gunner

Weapons
* Guns: 12× .50 in (12.7 mm) machine guns
* Bombs: 6,000 lb (2,700 kg)

B-26G perormance figures
* Maximum speed: 287 mph (250 knots, 460 km/h) at 5,000 ft (1,500 m)
* Cruise speed: 216 mph (188 knots, 358 km/h)
* Landing speed: 104 mph (90 knots, 167))
* Combat radius: 999 nm (1,150 mi, 1,850 km)
* Ferry range: 2,480 nm (2,850 mi, 4,590 km)
* Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 ft)
* Wing loading: 46.4 lb/ft² (228 kg/m²)
* Power/mass: 0.10 hp/lb (170 W/kg)
* Lift-to-drag ratio: 12.0

Crew: seven: (2 pilots, bombardier, navigator/radio operator, 3 gunners)

Weapons

* Guns: 12× .50 in (12.7 mm) Colt-Browning machine guns
* Bombs: 4,000 lb (1,800 kg)

So it looks like the B-25 has an advantage in range and bomb load vs the B-26.

The original B-26 was, for it's day, a very hot airplane with performanc efigures far in excess of the B-25. It was the high performance that gave fledging aircrews a lot of problems initially. MacDtll AFB in Florida was the home to the B-26 training unit and crashes were numerous. Things got so bad the Gen. Arnold had Jimmy Doolittle go down and check out the training as the AAF was thinking of cancelling the Marauder program. The basic problem was that a lot of the aircrew had NO twin engiine experience. Kinda like giving a 16 year kid with a new license the keys to an AC Cobra. SAMWolf covered this in #35

The B-25 on the other hand was relatively speaking a much more sedate aircraft to fly. I also suspect the the B-25 held up to battle damage a little better than the B-26 but I don't recall where I read this.

One other tidbit regards the B-26 FWIW. In the opening days of WW-II the 22nd Bomb Group was sent to Australia to help in the fight against the Japanese. They were equipped with the original shortwinged B-26As. In raids over japanese airfields on New Guinea after completing thier bomb runs the B-26sa were able to pull away from the Jap fighters. See Martian Caidan's Ragged Rugged Warriors for the full story.

Hope this helped some

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

42 posted on 01/22/2007 5:24:38 PM PST by alfa6 (Taxes are seldom levied for the benefit of the taxed.)
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