The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - The German Super Heavies - July 12th, 2005

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[SAMWolf]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

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The German Super Heavies

Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus
Porsche Typ 205 / Tiger II(P)


Maus with simulated turret during tests at Boblingen.

The development of super heavy tank started as early as 1941, when Krupp started the studies of superheavy Soviet tanks. In early 1942, Krupp produced designs of Tiger-Maus (VK7001) and PzKpfw VII Lowe (VK7201), but on March 5/6th of 1942, order for heavier tank was placed. Lowe never reached the prototype stage but paved the way for their successor's development. On March 21/22nd of 1942, Porsche received the contract for new 100-ton Panzer - VK10001 / Porsche Typ 205. On April 14/15th, it specified that new 100-ton tank must carry at least 100 rounds of ammunition. VK10001 was to be developed by Professor Ferdinand Porsche and Dr.Muller (Krupp) at the personal demand of Adolf Hitler made in May of 1942. He demanded 120-ton "indestructible" super-heavy tank armed with high performance L/60 or L/72 gun.


An early prototype of the Maus (205/1)

The task of producing hulls, turrets and armament was given to Krupp, while Alkett was responsible for the assembly. First specifications demanded that armament should consist of 150mm L/40 gun and 20mm MG151/20 heavy machine gun, while usage of 128mm L/50 was under consideration. It was stated that prototype should be operational before the Spring of 1943. On June 23rd of 1942, Porsche provided their design for improved VK10001 armed with turret mounted 150mm L/37 and 105mm L/70 guns. Porsche promised that first prototype will be ready in May of 1943. In December of 1942, new armaments such as 150mm gun, 127mm naval gun, 128mm Flak and the longest version of 128mm were considered. Also in the same month, it was restated that first vehicle was to be ready in Summer of 1943, followed by the production 5 per month. First official names VK10001 and Porsche Typ 205 ("Mammoth") were used in April of 1942, followed by Maeuschen (Mousy) in December of 1942 and Maus (Mouse) in February of 1943. In January of 1943, Hitler decided that the Maeuschen was to be fitted with turret mounted with 128mm and 75mm guns, while turret mounted with 150mm KwK 44 L/38 or 170mm KwK 44 gun was to be designed for future use. Specification for ammunition storage space were never met and decreased by further modifications.


Test trials with the Maus (205/2)

From the designs emerged 188 tonnes heavy monster. On May 1st of 1943, wooden mockup of the Maus was presented to Adolf Hitler, who agreed on production and ordered series of 150 to be produced. On November 4 of 1943, development of Maus was to be ceased and only one was to be completed for evaluation. In October of 1943, original order placed by Hitler for 150 vehicles was cancelled.



On December 24th of 1943, first turretless prototype was completed by Alkett and was put to the extensive tests. During the tests, the Maus could hardly move due to its enormous weight and power/weight ratio. First prototype V1 (Maus I), was powered by modified Daimler-Benz MB 509 (developed from DB 603 aircraft engine), which could not provide planned speed of 20km/h but only 13km/h in ideal conditions. Also problems arouse with suspension system which had to be modified in order to take the weight of the vehicle. Another problem that emerged from its weight, was that simply there were no bridges able to take the its weight. To overcome this problem Maus had to be provided with a "snorkel" arrangement which allowed it to submerse to the maximum depth of 8 meters. In December of 1943, V1 was fitted with (Belastungsgewicht) simulated turret (representing the weight of the turret) and was tested. Maus I was applied with camouflage paint and marked with red star and hammer and sickle disguised as a captured Russian vehicle.


The second prototype of the Maus (205/2)

In March of 1944, second prototype V2 (Maus II) which differed in numerous details from V1 was produced. V2 lacked the powerplant, which was fitted in mid 1944. On April 9th of 1944, Krupp produced the turret, which in June of 1944, was delivered and then mounted on V2 and tested. Krupp produced a turret mounted with 128mm KwK 44 L/55 gun with coaxial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 gun and 7.92mm MG34, providing the Maus with an enormous firepower. Maus' main gun could penetrate front, side and rear armor (at 30 degrees from vertical) of Sherman, Cromwell, Churchill, T-34/85 and JS-2 tanks at ranges of 3500+ meters. Turret included mounts for rangefinder (by Zeiss), but was not fully finished and some of the missing components were shipped later on.


This German drawing shows a sectionalized elevation of the Mouse hull. The following salient features may be diingtinguished: driver's seat (20) and periscope (14 and 18); radio operator's seat (12) and radio (21); radio antenna (28); air intakes for main engine (30); main engine (3); generator (4); the right motor of the two electric motors driving the sprockets (9); auxiliary fuel tank (29). The coaxial 75-mm gun is on the right of the turret; its position relative to the 128-mm gun is shown in dotted outline.

Maus I was to be fitted with Krupp's second turret but it was never delivered and it remained fitted with simulated turret. On July 25th of 1944, Krupp reported that two hulls will be available soon and two more later on. On July 27th of 1944, Krupp was ordered to scrap those four hulls. On August 19th of 1944, Krupp informed Porsche that it was order to stop further work on Maus. In September of 1944, second prototype started its tests. It was installed with Daimler-Benz MB 517 diesel engine that made little difference in comparison with previously used engine. Advanced electric steering system was used to steer the vehicle. Its running gear designed by Skoda, consisted of double-wheeled trucks supported by twelve return rollers with 1100mm wide tracks. The crew had to be provided with oxygen supplied by built-on fans/ventilators when all the hatches were closed.


The two prototypes of the Maus put aside in January 1945

In order to transport the Maus, special 14-axle railroad transport car (Verladewagon) was produced by Graz-Simmering-Pauker Works in Vienna. From mid January to early October of 1944, trials took place at armored vehicle proving grounds in Kummersdorf (near Berlin) and then at Porsche proving grounds at Boblingen. Tests were long, delayed by engine failures and production delays caused by Allied bomber attacks on German factories. During tests, it was determined that in case of any failure each Maus would have to be towed by two other Maus tanks. It is also reported that Germans worked on Flakzwilling 8.8cm auf Maus, which was to be Maus mounted with a modified turret housing two 88mm Flak 43 guns and used as heavy Flakpanzer.


Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus applied with camouflage paint.

Some sources state that according to Porsche, Hitler's aim for the Maus was to plug holes in the Atlantic coastal defenses on the Western Front, where it's limited range and mobility wouldn't have been too much of a hindrance. The popular version states that V2 prototype was blown up by the personnel at proving grounds in Kummersdorf, while some sources state that actually V2 saw combat while defending the facility at Kummersdorf. When war ended, almost finished V1 turret and third hull were found at Krupp facilities in Essen.


Maus in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka (near Moscow) in Russia

Overall, Maus was an interesting design but it would be of limited combat value because of its poor mobility and heavy weight making it more of a mobile fortification rather than a super tank. One fully assembled example (V2 turret mounted on V1 hull) was tested at Kubinka in 1951/52 and can be seen today in the Museum of Armored Forces in Kubinka (near Moscow) in Russia.

[SAMWolf]

Panzerkampfwagen VII Löwe (Lion)

The development of super heavy tank started as early as 1941, when Krupp started the studies of superheavy Soviet tanks. In November of 1941, it was specified that the new heavy tank was to have 140mm front and 100mm thick side armor. The vehicle was to be operated by 5 men crew - 3 in the turret and 2 in the hull. This new panzer was to have maximum speed of some 44km/h being powered by 1000hp Daimler-Benz marine engine used in Schnellboot (torpedo boat). The main armament was to be mounted in the turret. The weight was to be up 90 tons. In the early months of 1942, Krupp was ordered to start the process of designing new heavy tank designated PzKpfw VII Löwe (VK7201). Its design was based on previous project by Krupp designated VK7001 (Tiger-Maus) and created in competition with Porsche's designs (including first Maus designs).VK7001 was to be armed with either 150mm Kanone L/37 (or L/40) or 105mm KwK L/70 gun. Lowe was to utilize Tiger II's components in order to simplify the production and service.


PzKpfw VII (schwere) Löwe

Designers planned to build two variants of this streamlined vehicle with rear mounted turret. Light (leichte) variant would have frontal armor protection of 100mm and it would weight 76 tons. Heavy (schwere) variant would have frontal armor protection of 120mm and it would weight 90 tons. Both variants would be armed with 105mm L/70 gun and coaxial machine gun.It is known that 90ton schwere Löwe was to have its turret mounted centrally and in overall design resembled future Tiger II.Variants of Löwe were both to be operated by the crew of five. It was calculated that their maximum speed would range from 23km/h (schwere) to 27km/h (leichte).

Adolf Hitler ordered that the design Leichte Löwe was to be dropped in favour of Schwere Löwe. Lion was to be redesigned in order to carry 150mm L/40 or 150mm L/37 (probably 150mm KwK 44 L/38) gun and its frontal armor protection was to be changed to 140mm. In order to improve its performance, 900-1000mm wide tracks were to be used and top speed was to be increased to 30km/h.



In late 1942, this project was cancelled in favour of the development of the Maus. During the development of Tiger II, designers planned to build redesigned version of Löwe (as suggested by Oberst Fichtner), which would be armed with 88mm KwK L/71 gun and its frontal armor protection would be 140mm (as planned before). Redesigned Löwe would be able to travel at maximum speed of 35km/h and it would weight 90 tons. It was to be powered by Maybach HL 230 P 30, 12-cylinder engine producing 800hp. Löwe would be 7.74 meters long (with the gun), 3.83 meters wide and 3.08 meters high. Löwe would be operated by the crew of five. It was planned that Löwe would eventually replace Tiger II.

From February to May of 1942, six different designs were considered, all based on the requirements for Löwe. On March 5/6th of 1942, order for heavier tank was placed and project Löwe was stopped in July of 1942. Löwe project never reached the prototype stage but it paved the way for its successor's development - Porsche's Maus.

[SAMWolf]

E-100 "Tiger-Maus"

Background



The E-100 was the heaviest vehicle in the Entwicklungsfahrzeug series. Prior to the design being proposed, Krupps suggestion for a Panzerkampfwagen "Löwe" (with a weihgt on about 70-90 t.) had been turned down. Krupp became aware of Porsches design for the Panzerlampfwagen "Maus" (at that time known as the Typ 205), as they were contracted to deliver the turret to the vehicle.

Technical History

In 1942-11, Krupp suggested a 155 t. Panzer (as oposed to the 188 t. of the Maus), with the same turret as the Maus. Later, on 1942-12-18, Krupp sugested another vehicle. This used many of the same components as the Tiger, as well as the turret of the Maus - hence, Tiger-Maus. This vehicle was, however, 25 tons lighter; 130 t. This was done by using thinner armour, narrowing the vehicle, as well as shortening the entire vehicle with 88 cm.


Hull of the E 100

Despite the vehicles advantages to the Maus, which can be seen by comparing the Maus technical data table to that of the E-100, Hitler decided to go ahead with the Maus on 1943-01-03. There is no apparent explanation to this, but possibly, Hitler did not like that Krupp designed a vehicle by themselves when another company already had the contract. Although Hitler favoured the Maus, Oberbaurat Kniepkamp obtained permission from Waffenprüfung 6 to go ahead with the Tiger-Maus, under the name of E-100, as a part of the Entwicklungfahrzuege series. It is at this occation that the name changes from Panzerkampfwagen Tiger-Maus to E-100. There were some modifications to the original design, such as mounting a double external coil spring suspension. The Maus turret was still to be used.

The company Adler was chosen to design the vehicle - a company with no experience what-so-ever in the field of heavy vehicles. Their work began by the end of 1943-06, and they did not comple the hull until 1944-05. By then, however, the Maus series had been cancelled, and there were no turret to be fitted on the hull. Therefore, it was left at the factory near Paderborn, where it was found in 1945-03.

Conclusion


The partly-built E-100, being inspected by US soldiers at the factory

The E-100 was one of the heaviest vehicles to be initiated. The vehcile itself did have more potential than the Maus, but on the other hand, the time, effort and especially raw materials and money used on both vehicles had been much better spend elsewhere. The heavy armour would have protected it very well against enemy ground attacks, but the 40-60 mm. armour on the top would still have been vulnerable to Alied rockets - one place where the Maus was better than the E-100.

Additional Sources:

www.panzerworld.net
www.wargamer.com
www.lonesentry.com
www.kubinka-tank-inform.ru
karbine.xoopiter.com

[SAMWolf]

Specifications for PZ VIII Maus

Weight:	188000kg
Crew:	6 men
Engine:	Daimler-Benz MB 509 / 12-cylinder / 1080hp (V1) Daimler-Benz MB 517 Diesel / 12-cylinder / 1200hp (V2)
Fuel Capacity:	2650-2700 liters + 1500 liters in reserve tank
Speed:	13-20km/h
Range:	Road: 160-190km Cross-Country: 62km
Length:	10.09m
Width:	3.67m
Height:	3.63m
Armament:	128mm KwK 44 L/55 & 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 1 x 7.92mm MG34
Ammo:	128mm - 55-68 rounds 75mm - 200 rounds
Armor (mm/angle):	Turret Roof: 60/90 Gun Mantlet: 250/round Front Turret: 220-240/round Superstructure Roof: 50-100/9 Front Glacis Plate: 200/55 Hull Front: 200/35 Belly Plate Fore: 100/90 Side Turret: 200/30 Hull Side Upper: 180/0 Hull Side Lower: 100+80/0 Rear Turret: 200/15 Hull Rear Upper: 150/37 Hull Rear Lower: 150/30 Belly Plate Aft: 50/90

Specifications for E-100

Weight:	137790kg
Crew:	5-6 men
Engine:	Maybach HL 230 P30 / 12-cylinder / 700hp (prototype) Maybach HL 234 / 12-cylinder / 800hp (production)
Speed:	38-40km/h
Range:	Road: 120km
Length:	10.27m (with the gun) 8.70m (w/o the gun)
Width:	4.48m
Height:	3.32m (battle tracks) 3.29m (transport tracks)
Armament:	128mm KwK 44 L/55 & coaxial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 1 x 7.92mm MG34 (planned) 150mm KwK 44 L/38 & coaxial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 1 x 7.92mm MG34 (prototype) 170mm KwK 44 & coaxial 75mm KwK 44 L/36.5 1/2 x 7.92mm MG34/42 (production)
Armor (mm/angle):	Front Turret: 240/round Front Hull: 150/40 Front Superstructure: 200/60 Side Turret: 200/30 Side Hull: 120/0 Side Superstructure: 60+120/20&0 Rear Turret: 200/7 Rear Hull: 150/30 Rear Superstructure: 150/30 Turret Top / Bottom: 40/90 Hull Top / Bottom: 80/90 SuperstructureTop / Bottom: 40/90 Gun Mantlet: 240/Saukopfblende

[SAMWolf]

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[snippy_about_it]

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************Snippy, I bequeath to you the FR TH PL.

148 posted on 08/24/2004 11:39:45 AM PDT by Cannoneer No. 4 (I've lost turret power; I have my nods and my .50. Hooah. I will stay until relieved. White 2 out.)

Good morning treadheads, fall in. :-)

[AZamericonnie]

Supporting our Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast Guardsmen at more than 1,000 places across the U. S. and around the world.

~Tribute to Our Troops~

[radu]

Good morning everyone!

To all our military men and women past and present, military family members, and to our allies who stand beside us
Thank You!

[Iris7]

Even by my standards Maus was underpowered. 188 metric tons (tonnes) is about 207 U.S. short tons (414,000 lbs.) Minimum horsepower at 7 hp/ton is about 1500 hp. Decent cross country mobility is about 10 hp/ton, 2,000 hp. Centurion had 11.4 hp/ton (ain't Google something else?), and that was enough. Abrams has about 24 hp/ton.

The last photo of the E-100 hull shows a really large turret ring. Looks to be about nine feet across, maybe ten feet. Huge, big, wow.

[Iris7]

Looking at yesterday, suddenly came to me that the "goldbugs", those financial types that believe in gold, are totally, ludicrously wrong.

To paraphrase, and modernize, old Nicolo Machievelli, "Oil can't get you good soldiers, but good soldiers can get you oil."

Vladimir Putin is supposed to have said that international politics is oil and nuclear weapons. Can't say I disagree. I'll add in China's big play, just now started. Bill Clinton is going to cost thousands, maybe millions, of American dead.

[quietolong]

I just finished reading the book:

Rising Tide
The untold story of the Russian Submarines that fought the cold war
Gary Weir & Walter Boyne
2003
http://www.risingtidebook.com

Rising Tide tells the Soviet side of these secret operations. Drawing on newly available archives as well as interviews with a dozen former Soviet Commanders


It’s a little one-sided at times. But the US Navy not about to open there files to conform some of the clams. But it seemed very convenient that they could stumble across a US missile boat on patrol to trail it.

[Professional Engineer]

Good morning ladies. Flag-o-Gram.

Today's Flag reverently swiped from Colonial Warrior

[Aeronaut]

Good morning Snippy.

[alfa6]

Back on the day shift Bumperooni for Treadhead Tuesday

Regards

A Greatly reduced F-15 pic to get Tuesday off to a flying start :-)

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

[E.G.C.]

Good morning, Snippy and everyone at the Freeper Foxhole.

[GailA]

Good morning, it's quilting day for me, and since it's promising to rain most of the day, there is no outside work on my mobile home to do.

[Soaring Feather]

Good ThreadHead Tuesday everyone.

[Soaring Feather]

Good morning, radu!

[Soaring Feather]

Good morning, EGC!!


*HUGS*

[E.G.C.]

((HUGS))Morning, Bentfeather. How's it going?