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The FReeper Foxhole Remembers The F-4 Phantom in the Middle East - June 20th, 2005
Aviation History Magazine | Ronald Drucker

Posted on 06/19/2005 10:35:04 PM PDT by SAMWolf

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To: Professional Engineer

P.E. Let me know if you need back up on the F-O-G for a few days.

I probably got a few extra F-O-G pics available :-)

SAM, am at work and only had 1 Israeli Phantom Pic this AM before I left, will see what I got later when home I get.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


41 posted on 06/20/2005 10:33:33 AM PDT by alfa6 (Two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights made an airplane!)
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To: SAMWolf
The comment was not aimed at you. I do apologize if it seemed that way. It was intended as a swipe at the original compilers. At least some of them were professional, and they didn't seem to take much pride in their work.

And besides, I haven't been doing much nit-picking the last few weeks.

I hope your lack of time is because you all have been so prosperous at the store.
42 posted on 06/20/2005 11:00:34 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: Professional Engineer
Having a less than satisfactory day with the "architect" types? ;)

Seems like the guys who make the big decisions are the sort able to conceal from themselves their utter incompetence. "Well, I am a manager, not a (mere) technician!"

Usually lawyers or MBAs, or some other indistinguishable flavor of smarmy politician, seems like. Or all of the above.

Ugh, could continue in this vein for a long time.

Had an old pard, haven't seen him in years, a big HVAC guy, liked balancing big buildings' ventilation with variable air volume using variable frequency drives (new, rare, and expensive in those days. Dinosaurs ruled the earth then. Dang, they still do!!!!). His great triumph in that period was getting the money to set up a rig so he could switch on and off variable air volume with a watt meter on it. Somehow got one of the brass to watch wattage as he turned the variable volume on and off. "Oh, Look!" said the aforementioned brass hat. "We can save money!"

Mr. Brass Hat then put his thumb back in his mouth and wandered off, looking for someone who loved him.

Oh, dear, I am afraid a tiny bit of hostility is showing! ;)

43 posted on 06/20/2005 11:02:09 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: w_over_w
Nice photos. Looks like you have an eye for fields of fire. Captions are good.

A few days ago I was showing her your Fredericksburg photos, (and talking about Hooker's right, actually!!). She said she would go with me on my dreamed of battlefield trips. I told her I meant two weeks at Gettysburg, not including time in the car scoping out approaches, exits, logistics, etc. Said I want to go at the right time of year, so the plant life was correct. She straightened, and said, "I'll need a hat."

Have I mentioned that I am happily married? Very few men are as blessed as I.
44 posted on 06/20/2005 11:16:21 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: Iris7
When I referred to "her", "she", etc. in the last post I meant my wife. Oddly, I did not make this clear. Well, I knew the She to whom I referred!!!!!!!!!!
45 posted on 06/20/2005 11:37:45 AM PDT by Iris7 ("War means fighting, and fighting means killing." - Bedford Forrest)
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To: Iris7
Have I mentioned that I am happily married? Very few men are as blessed as I.

Count me as one of them. As you've seen by the photos, my wife has trooped to all these blessed battlefields with me. She only required some antique stores and good resturants. We caught weather in the 82-85 degree range this June but with little chance of rain. The locals say it's cooler in April but also a better chance of rain.

Two weeks in Gettysburg? That should just about cover it. ;^)

46 posted on 06/20/2005 11:40:38 AM PDT by w_over_w (Where can I buy a ball-cap with the bill sewn on the side? All mine are on the front.)
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To: Iris7
When I referred to "her", "she", etc. in the last post I meant my wife.

Roger that.

47 posted on 06/20/2005 11:48:11 AM PDT by w_over_w (Where can I buy a ball-cap with the bill sewn on the side? All mine are on the front.)
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To: Valin
Unless he travels fast, I shouldn't have to worry about him for a few weeks. :-)


48 posted on 06/20/2005 1:20:35 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: w_over_w
[There will be no pictures of antiques]

Thank God for small Blessings. :-)

Snippy and I walked that same ground and took some of those same pictures.

49 posted on 06/20/2005 1:23:16 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: Professional Engineer

ROTFLMAO!!


50 posted on 06/20/2005 1:23:57 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: SAMWolf

My last tour on active duty was at NAS Point Mugu where they were using these beautiful aircraft as target drones! What a heartbreaker to see such sweet aircraft blown out of the sky!


51 posted on 06/20/2005 3:06:59 PM PDT by NFOShekky (Freedom Is Never Free.)
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To: SAMWolf

A few years ago my son and I each got an hour of flight time in the F-4 simulator at Holloman AFB, New Mexico. I'll post my account of that adventure here if anyone cares.


52 posted on 06/20/2005 4:08:14 PM PDT by kilowhskey
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To: kilowhskey
I'll post my account of that adventure here if anyone cares.

Go fot it. :-) My son (about 16 at the time)and I tried an F-16 simulator at an air show, guess which one of us crashed on landing?

53 posted on 06/20/2005 4:57:44 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: NFOShekky
they were using these beautiful aircraft as target drones!

:-(

Still better than rotting in an aircraft graveyard I guess.

54 posted on 06/20/2005 4:58:53 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: PAR35

I know it wasn't aimed at me, just trying to explain that we hardly have time to get a thread up. Not much time to proofread and make corrections. :-(


55 posted on 06/20/2005 5:01:38 PM PDT by SAMWolf (Why are they called apartments, when they're all stuck together?)
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To: SAMWolf

That's one of the reasons that I think the Saturday forums are a good idea. They should require a little less work than the others, although you put up the background info for the Gibraltar thread.


56 posted on 06/20/2005 5:05:05 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: SAMWolf; Professional Engineer; All
Phabulous Phantoms Pics Bump

It helps to look in the right folder, I plead to much blood in the caffienne sytem this morning.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

57 posted on 06/20/2005 5:41:51 PM PDT by alfa6 (Two wrongs don't make a right, but two Wrights made an airplane!)
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; Brad's Gramma; PAR35; radu; Iris7; Aeronaut; alfa6; GailA; baltodog; ...

It's Greek to me.


F4E from Rich Levy

DANGER: Biggo Filo: Turkish McD.D. F4E Phantom (NATO Photo 384Kb)

Nice 4-view: McDD F4E Phantom II

Phantom Tiger

Phantom formation

Un page avec many nice Phantom photos


Do not eat at Jose's Tacos before flight.

McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II

Transonic condensation


Phantoms as far as the eye can see. During the peak years of F-4 production,
more than two aircraft were being completed every day.

Other people watch football--you have your own. . . .


Pratt & Whitney PW1120

From the Archives of Architectural Anachronisms

We installed the single glazing in the clerestories of the 7,000 square foot house later sold to Neil Simon and Marsha Mason.

The architect assured the contractor there would be no condensation problem with installing the single glazing as drawn.

That was summertime when the livin be easy.

Later that winter. . . .

Richard had returned from the Alaskan pipeline so took being on the roof in the snow in good humor.

I, atop the extension ladder in the various rooms below, was stripped to tee shirt dripping with sweat.

O, Mighty Architect, we are not worthy.

Out go de single glazing; in go de double. Rinse. Repeat.

58 posted on 06/20/2005 8:03:46 PM PDT by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: SAMWolf

My brother just happened to know the #2 guy at Holloman AFB in charge of the F-4 flight simulator used to train German Air Force pilots and arranged to get Kirby and me a couple of hours of flying time when the students were occupied elsewhere. Those of you who were in Vietnam know firsthand what a bad-ass aircraft this is. As a twenty-something, I figured that the only chance I would ever have of getting into the cockpit would involve a successful run for Congress followed by finagling a seat on the Armed Services Committee. Years passed and that pipedream vanished like a wisp of smoke long forgotten. I'm certain that my brother Kevin had no idea what this opportunity would mean to me.

At the appointed time we walked into the building housing the simulator. After signing in we were escorted into the simulator room. The device itself is mounted on a limited motion hydraulic platform. The control panel (see photo) allows the instructor to monitor the pilot's responses to every imaginable in-flight emergency and tactical problem. The simulator requires the power of two mainframes to operate.

The first impression one gets is how small the cockpit really is. I don't know the actual dimensions, but it is definitely more cramped than a Cub or a Citabria. There are more buttons and switches than I have ever seen in one place. One quickly focuses on four or five items--throttles, flaps, airspeed, altimeter and artificial horizon. I told the instructor that I had never started a jet engine and would need help getting underway. Through the magic of electronics, he put me and the plane at the end of the runway with both engines running, thus saving us both at least a half hour of fumbling around and accomplishing little.

The first thing one learns when taking off is that at max takeoff weight, 55,000 pounds, the airplane will not leave the ground without the use of afterburners. Afterburners are activated by advancing the throttles to the forward stop, then pushing them to the left and forward again, somewhat like shifting into compound low on a heavy truck. It does not fly itself off the runway. The nose is lifted at 140 and the mains clear concrete at 180. Gear and flaps are on the left. The levers are distinctively different. The gear lever is a short stick poking out of the bulkhead with a knob on the end shaped like a yo-yo. The flap switch has a smaller tapered throw which looks like a flap and would not be mistaken for any other switch in the vicinity. Gear and flaps are retracted as soon as the climb out is established. I came out of burners and leveled off at 10,000 feet in a frighteningly short period of time.

This airplane is a joy to fly! Once trimmed, the controls are lighter than I expected but heavier than one encounters in the garden variety general aviation aircraft. I did aileron rolls to the left and right. Coordinated turns are easy as the stick and rudder seem well harmonized at normal flying speeds. I stuffed it for the first time when I attempted a loop and did not make it tight enough. I fell out of the sky in an inverted flat spin! The instructor let me fall almost to the ground before pressing the reset button. I learned later that if the instructor allows the aircraft to crash, it takes about thirty minutes to reboot the computers. As a result, the instructors are motivated to stop the simulator once it is clear that the student is not going to recover control of the aircraft. The instructor put me right side up and where I was before. In the second attempt I used more power and tried to maintain 2.5gs over the top. That worked fine and I completed the maneuver without further trouble.

Next came flying's biggest challenge, landing the beast. The instructor gave me the easiest possible setup, a five mile straight final to the flare. This airplane has such a high wing loading that it lands really hot. One flies the approach with the power set at 82% ( ! ). Gear and flaps reduce the speed to 180. Control harmony is diminished at this low speed. Pitch and roll are adequate but yaw leaves much to be desired. If you feed in rudder until you see the plane respond, you find yourself in an overcontrol situation. The technique one learns is to add a bit of rudder and wait for the airplane to respond. In the language of the sea, one would say that "she is slow to answer the helm." I had trouble keeping the plane lined up with the runway on all three landings I attempted. I ended up in the dirt in the first two. The third one was marginal, to put it charitably. Standing on the toe brakes, I wrestled the monster to a stop and realized that I was sweating, even though the room was air conditioned. This is as close as I will ever get to the real thing. The experience was a total rush.



Kirby followed me into the cockpit, and, after adjusting the seat, roared off into the wild blue. Cathy and I had sent him to an aviation camp the previous summer. Located at the former Castle Air Force Base in Merced, he spent a week flying fairly sophisticated simulators every day. He was smooth on the controls and flew like he had done this kind of thing a time or two. He easily followed the instructor's guidance. When it was time for Kirby to fly back to the base, the instructor told him to make a 180-degree turn to position the plane for the landing. Kirby asked the instructor if he could make an Immelman turn instead. Surprised that a 12 year old kid even knew what an Immelman turn was, he agreed to let him try it. Kirby proceeded to blow him and the other men in the control room away when he executed the turn smoothly. An Immelman turn is made by executing a half loop. As the plane goes inverted the pilot rolls it upright. It is a quick and easy way to reverse course if the plane has enough power to do such a maneuver. Having successfully reversed course, he proceeded to make three beautiful landings. Once again he surprised everyone in the room with his stick and rudder skills.


59 posted on 06/20/2005 8:35:03 PM PDT by kilowhskey
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To: w_over_w

Great photos


60 posted on 06/20/2005 9:03:37 PM PDT by Valin (The right to do something does not mean that doing it is right.)
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