Free Republic
Browse · Search
VetsCoR
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The FReeper Foxhole Remembers the Armistice Day Attack (11/11/1918) - Apr. 21st, 2005
Military History Quarterly | 2005 | Joseph E. Persico

Posted on 04/20/2005 9:30:57 PM PDT by SAMWolf



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.


.................................................................. .................... ...........................................

U.S. Military History, Current Events and Veterans Issues

Where Duty, Honor and Country
are acknowledged, affirmed and commemorated.

Our Mission:

The FReeper Foxhole is dedicated to Veterans of our Nation's military forces and to others who are affected in their relationships with Veterans.

In the FReeper Foxhole, Veterans or their family members should feel free to address their specific circumstances or whatever issues concern them in an atmosphere of peace, understanding, brotherhood and support.

The FReeper Foxhole hopes to share with it's readers an open forum where we can learn about and discuss military history, military news and other topics of concern or interest to our readers be they Veteran's, Current Duty or anyone interested in what we have to offer.

If the Foxhole makes someone appreciate, even a little, what others have sacrificed for us, then it has accomplished one of it's missions.

We hope the Foxhole in some small way helps us to remember and honor those who came before us.

To read previous Foxhole threads or
to add the Foxhole to your sidebar,
click on the books below.

Wasted Lives on Armistice Day


Did American commanders needlessly send doughboys to their deaths during the hours before the 1918 armistice went into effect?

On November 11, 1918, Armistice Day, the American Expeditionary Forces (AEF) on the Western Front in France suffered more than thirty-five hundred casualties, although it had been known unofficially for two days that the fighting would end that day and known with absolute certainty as of 5 o'clock that morning that it would end at 11 a.m. Nearly a year afterward, on November 5, 1919, General John J. Pershing, commander of the AEF, found himself testifying on the efficiency of the war's prosecution before the House of Representatives Committee on Military Affairs.



The encounter was amicable and respectful since members were dealing with the officer who had led America to victory in the Great War. However, a Republican committee member, Alvan T. Fuller of Massachusetts, deferentially posed a provocative query: "This question is somewhat irrelevant to the matter under discussion," Fuller began, "but I would like to ask General Pershing if American troops were ordered over the top on the other side on the morning of the day when under the terms of the Armistice firing was to cease...and that those troops who were not killed or wounded marched peacefully into Germany at 11 o'clock. Is that true?"

Pershing answered with his customary crisp confidence:

When the subject of the armistice was under discussion we did not know what the purpose of it was definitely, whether it was something proposed by the German High Command to gain time or whether they were sincere in their desire to have an armistice; and the mere discussion of an armistice would not be sufficient grounds for any judicious commander to relax his military activities....No one could possibly know when the armistice was to be signed, or what hour be fixed for the cessation of hostilities so that the only thing for us to do, and which I did as commander in chief of the American forces, and which Marshal Foch did as commander in chief of the Allied armies was to continue the military activities....


General John J. Pershing


Just days later, however, the congressman forwarded to Pershing a letter from a constituent with a cover note saying, "I have been deluged with questions on this subject." The enclosed letter had been written to Fuller by George K. Livermore, former operations officer of the 167th Field Artillery Brigade of the black 92nd Division, stating that that force had been engaged since 5 a.m. on November 11 and had been ordered to launch its final charge at 10:30 a.m. Livermore lamented "the little crosses over the graves of the colored lads who died a useless death on that November morning." He further described the loss of U.S. Marines killed crossing the Meuse River in the final hours as "frightful." Congressman Fuller closed his letter to Pershing asking for "a real frank, full answer to the question as to whether American lives were needlessly wasted."

Fuller had Pershing's answer within the week, and it was categorical. By allowing the fighting to go forward, Pershing reiterated that he was simply following the orders of his superior, Marshal Ferdinand Foch, commander in chief of Allied forces in France, issued on November 9, to keep up the pressure against the retreating enemy until the cease-fire went into effect. Consequently, he had not ordered his army to stop fighting even after the signing of the armistice, of which, "I had no knowledge before 6 a.m. November 11."

The possibility of an armistice had begun the evening of November 7 when French soldiers of the 171st Régiment d'Infanterie near Haudroy were startled by an unfamiliar bugle call. Fearing they were about to be overrun, they cautiously advanced toward the increasingly loud blaring when out of the mantle of fog three automobiles emerged, their sides gilded with the imperial German eagle. The astonished Frenchmen had encountered a German armistice delegation headed by a rotund forty-three-year-old politician and peace advocate named Matthias Erzberger. The delegation was escorted to the Compiègne Forest near Paris where, in a railroad dining car converted into a conference room, they were met by a small, erect figure--Marshal Foch--who fixed them with a withering gaze. Foch opened the proceeding with a question that left the Germans agape. "Ask these Gentlemen what they want," he said to his interpreter. When the Germans had recovered, Erzberger answered that they understood they had been sent to discuss armistice terms. Foch stunned them again: "Tell these gentlemen that I have no proposals to make."


During World War I, doughboys of the 28th Infantry Regiment crowd a trench in France.


No proposals, perhaps, but he did have demands. Foch's interpreter read aloud the Allied conditions, which struck the Germans like hammer blows: All occupied lands in Belgium, Luxembourg, and France--plus Alsace-Lorraine, held since 1870 by Germany--were to be evacuated within fourteen days; the Allies were to occupy Germany west of the Rhine and bridgeheads on the river's east bank thirty kilometers deep; German forces had to be withdrawn from Austria-Hungary, Romania, and Turkey; Germany was to surrender to neutral or Allied ports 10 battleships, 6 battle cruisers, 8 cruisers, and 160 submarines. Germany was also to be stripped of heavy armaments, including 5,000 artillery pieces, 25,000 machine guns, and 2,000 airplanes. The next demand threw the German delegates into despair. Though the German people already faced starvation, the Allies intended to paralyze the enemy's transportation by continuing its naval blockade and confiscating 5,000 locomotives, 150,000 railway cars, and 5,000 trucks. The translator droned on through thirty-four conditions, the last of which blamed Germany for the war and demanded it pay reparations for all damage caused. Foch informed Erzberger that he had seventy-two hours to obtain the consent of his government to the Allies' terms, or the war would go on.

On average, 2,250 troops on all sides were dying on the Western Front every day. "For God's sake, Monsieur le Marechal," Erzberger pleaded, "do not wait for those seventy-two hours. Stop the hostilities this very day." The appeal fell on deaf ears. Before the meeting, Foch had described to his staff his intention "to pursue the Feldgrauen [field grays, or German soldiers] with a sword at their backs" to the last minute until an armistice went into effect.

To Pershing the very idea of an armistice was repugnant. "Their request is an acknowledgment of weakness and clearly means that the Allies are winning the war," he maintained. "Germany's desire is only to regain time to restore order among her forces, but she must be given no opportunity to recuperate and we must strike harder than ever." As for terms, Pershing had one response: "There can be no conclusion to this war until Germany is brought to her knees." The French and British Allies might be exhausted and long for peace, but Pershing saw his army akin to a fighter ready to deliver the knockout punch who is told to quit with his opponent reeling but still standing. Conciliation now, he claimed, would lead only to future war. He wanted Germany's unconditional surrender.



The Germans finally yielded and signed the armistice at 5:10 on the morning of the eleventh, backed up officially to 5 a.m. and to take effect within Foch's deadline: the eleventh month, eleventh day, eleventh hour of 1918. Pershing's postwar claim that he had had no official knowledge of the impending armistice before being informed by Foch's headquarters at 6 a.m. was disingenuous. The moment when the fighting would cease had been clear from the time Foch handed Erzberger the deadline, information to which Pershing was privy. On the evening of November 10 and through that night, news of the impending end was repeatedly affirmed from radio transmissions received at Pershing's AEF headquarters in Chaumont.

After the general was apprised that the signing had taken place, the order going out from him merely informed subordinate commanders of that fact. It said nothing about what they should do until 11 o'clock, when the cease-fire would go into effect. His order left his commanders in a decisional no man's land as to whether to keep fighting or spare their men in the intervening hours. The generals left in that limbo fell roughly into two categories: ambitious careerists who saw a fast-fading opportunity for glory, victories, even promotions; and those who believed it mad to send men to their deaths to take ground that they could safely walk into within days.

Congressman Fuller's mention of the loss of marines that final day referred to an action ordered by Maj. Gen. Charles P. Summerall, Pershing's commander of the V Corps. No doubt had clouded Summerall's mind as to how all this talk of an armistice on the eleventh should be treated. The day before he had gathered his senior officers and told them, "Rumors of enemy capitulation come from our successes." Consequently, this was no time to relax but rather to tighten the screws.



TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: armistice; doughboys; freeperfoxhole; generalpershing; generalsummerall; marines; veterans; wwi
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-66 next last
To: GailA

We're suppose to have good weather at least until Sunday.


21 posted on 04/21/2005 8:20:28 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bentfeather

Good morning feather.


22 posted on 04/21/2005 8:20:42 AM PDT by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: snippy_about_it

Morning Snippy.


23 posted on 04/21/2005 8:41:49 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: radu

Hi Radu. How the cats doing?


24 posted on 04/21/2005 8:42:14 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Iris7

WWII was a continuation of WWI.

The Korean War also ended in an armistice and not a peace treay. The same with Gulf War I. The last time we "defeated" an enemy was WWII.


25 posted on 04/21/2005 8:44:55 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Aeronaut

Morning Aeronaut.


26 posted on 04/21/2005 8:45:19 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: E.G.C.

Morning E.G.C.

Starting out to be a nice day.


27 posted on 04/21/2005 8:45:52 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: The Mayor

Morning Mayor.


28 posted on 04/21/2005 8:46:12 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: GailA

29 posted on 04/21/2005 8:49:10 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: bentfeather

Hi Feather


30 posted on 04/21/2005 8:49:35 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Professional Engineer

Thank you PE. Those look like Benny's boots too. In all the last years those boots looked well used from riding, but they were always either on him - or sitting there like that. Don't think I ever saw him with any other kind of footwear.

He loved the U.S. Navy. Got out in the 60's but always said he should have stayed. He was in the Pacific and it was during the first years of Viet Nam but he would never talk about anything but things he liked about the Navy so I really don't know if he ever saw hard situations or not. Amend that - I should say - I don't know what unpleasant and difficult things he saw there.

My grandfather was one of those who always said "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all." Benny is one of the very few people I've known in my life who actually *lived* that. He would say something kind about people most of us detested but if he ever just was quiet and kinda grunted you knew that he was having a hard time finding something good to say about whoever.

Through the years I have traveled over nearly half the U.S. with Benny. (all western states) Everywhere we went people would come up that he knew. I mean - we would be 5 states away from McGregor, Texas, his hometown, and someone would come up at a restaurant or convenience store and say, "Bennyyyy.." And he would know them from somewhere. You got used to it after a while. LOL

He made me a real good dad. And he made my kids a real good Granddad too. He just fell into that role years ago and always seemed to like it. If he could he would travel with me on long trips to make sure I was safe. When he couldn't travel with me, he would make give him an itinerary, call when I left, check in with him and call to let him know I arrived safely at all destinations. He never let me leave on a trip without giving my bike a thorough "going-over" or making sure my car or truck was in shape. Until Benny took that role in my life I always thought it odd that other people had dads or other folks looking after them like that. It took some getting used to but Benny insisted.

My biological dad - I try to respect in every way I can - but he told me years ago that he just didn't like me and didn't really care if he never saw me again. I was broke down on the side of Interstate 35 one hot July with both my kids young, I was 5 miles from my mom and dad's house and they would not come help us or pick us up to get us off the highway. That was before cell phones so I could call Benny or others for help. Used a pay phone to call parents but they wouldn't help. Got help from some stranger that stopped on the Interstate and replaced fan belt for me.

Benny even helped a lot in teaching me to think the best of my parents. There is not a lot of warm fuzzy things to say about my relationship with my parents... but except for what I'm sharing now you will find that I try to just say the good about my mom and dad. Benny encouraged that. He knew my dad growing up and just said, "Kimberly, your dad can't help being how he is." And Benny was always there to fill in that place of "dad" for me. God rest his soul... I do know and have peace that Benny is with Jesus now.


31 posted on 04/21/2005 8:51:44 AM PDT by Wneighbor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Valin
1918 "Red Baron" [Manfred von Richtofen] shot down in WWI at 25


32 posted on 04/21/2005 8:52:25 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: Professional Engineer

NICE!!!!!!!


33 posted on 04/21/2005 8:52:39 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Samwise
Great flag-o-gram!

I love it too!! See my previous post. :-)

34 posted on 04/21/2005 8:52:58 AM PDT by Wneighbor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: GailA

I hate it when that happens!!

35 posted on 04/21/2005 8:55:05 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Wneighbor


Wneighbor's "Dad"
U.S. Navy

36 posted on 04/21/2005 8:56:48 AM PDT by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #24 - Don't call it a lie, call it "changing your mind.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Wneighbor

Yep, Benny's your dad. :^)


37 posted on 04/21/2005 8:58:48 AM PDT by Samwise (I've got my towel.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: SAMWolf; Professional Engineer; Samwise

Thanks to ya'll.

My screen's blurry this morning from your tributes dadgummit. I sure appreciate them.


38 posted on 04/21/2005 8:59:05 AM PDT by Wneighbor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: Samwise
Yep, Benny's your dad. :^)

Yes, he is. :-)

He was real tickled that I was moving from here. Worried about me off up here 200 miles away. He wanted me home but was also going to rest easier if I lived closer to Jill and Tom too. He either wanted himself or Tom to be able to look after me and he thought Tom would do a fine job of that too. But, he was really hoping that I would just end up "home" again. LOL

39 posted on 04/21/2005 9:03:46 AM PDT by Wneighbor
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
Good morning, folks.((HUGS))

EGC had a late night last night. The storm alarm went off numerous times. We t-atorm and flash flood warnings for the area.Didn't get muc rain at our loaction.

Dad's still coughing a little but not as much as the last few days. Yesterday we misread his thermonter readin and almost ended up driving to the hospital. It was 10.4. He thought it was 104.0.

40 posted on 04/21/2005 9:03:55 AM PDT by E.G.C.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-66 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
VetsCoR
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson