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'We gained 57,000 km² [22,000 square miles] of territory. Just enough to bury our dead.'

Soviet General




The Winter War of 1939 is a footnote in most histories. Yet it had great importance in the outcome of World War II. Hitler watched as the Finns humiliated the Russians and believed that Germany could crush his Eastern neighbor. Although publicly claiming a great victory, Stalin realized that it had been a military fiasco. He reinstated many Army officers, returned their rank and privileges and reduced the importance of political commissars. His reorganization was just in time to prevent Hitler from taking Russia. Timoshenko said, "The Russians have learned much in this hard war in which the Finns fought with Heroism." Admiral Kuznetsov concluded, "We had received a severe lesson. We had to profit by it." Khrushchev summed it up, "All of us—and Stalin first and foremost—sensed in our victory a defeat by the Finns. It was a dangerous defeat because it encouraged our enemies' conviction that the Soviet Union was a colossus with feet of clay . . . We had to draw some lessons for the immediate future from what had happened."


Dead Russian soldier boots taken, pockets emptied


As for the Allies, Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain's British government and the French government of Daladier vacillated in indecision during the "mid-winter madness" of the "phony war" of 1939-40. The Nazis invaded Norway and Denmark and both governments fell. Pierre Laval took over in France to no avail, but Chamberlain's "peace in our time" policy was replaced by the resolute Winston Churchill. Once Hitler attacked the Soviet Union in June of 1941 and Japan attacked the US in December of 1941, the US, Britain and Soviet Union were thrown together as allies and this spelled doom for the Axis powers in what became one of the true holy wars of world history.



This epic Finnish Winter War is the material of heroic ballads passed down to generations. Only the hand of God could have brought about the results.




3 posted on 03/23/2005 10:25:10 PM PST by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #9 - Can't refute the message? Attack the messenger!)
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To: All


Veterans for Constitution Restoration is a non-profit, non-partisan educational and grassroots activist organization. The primary area of concern to all VetsCoR members is that our national and local educational systems fall short in teaching students and all American citizens the history and underlying principles on which our Constitutional republic-based system of self-government was founded. VetsCoR members are also very concerned that the Federal government long ago over-stepped its limited authority as clearly specified in the United States Constitution, as well as the Founding Fathers' supporting letters, essays, and other public documents.





Actively seeking volunteers to provide this valuable service to Veterans and their families.




We here at Blue Stars For A Safe Return are working hard to honor all of our military, past and present, and their families. Inlcuding the veterans, and POW/MIA's. I feel that not enough is done to recognize the past efforts of the veterans, and remember those who have never been found.

I realized that our Veterans have no "official" seal, so we created one as part of that recognition. To see what it looks like and the Star that we have dedicated to you, the Veteran, please check out our site.

Veterans Wall of Honor

Blue Stars for a Safe Return


UPDATED THROUGH APRIL 2004




The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul

Click on Hagar for
"The FReeper Foxhole Compiled List of Daily Threads"



LINK TO FOXHOLE THREADS INDEXED by PAR35

4 posted on 03/23/2005 10:25:34 PM PST by SAMWolf (Liberal Rule #9 - Can't refute the message? Attack the messenger!)
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To: SAMWolf

Wow. I am always amazed at how little history I really know.


11 posted on 03/24/2005 4:28:49 AM PST by Samwise (Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away.)
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To: SAMWolf
Interesting Post today SAM

The Finns in their struggles witht the Soviets found a good use for the lowly Brewster Buffalo. The Buffalo was much despised by those who flew it in combat for the US, Britian, Australia and New Zealand but to the Finns it was a gift froom the gods. I suspect that the reason for the succes of the Buffalo in the service of the Finns was due to the "relatively" poor quality of the Soviet air arm at this time.

If I am not nmistaken the chief opposiion for the Finns would have been the I-15 and I-16 fighters, aircraft that would have had a performance roughly equal to the Buffalo. Given aircraft of equal ability the tide will turn to the better trained piolts. Also the Finns would have had the advantage of fighing over thier own country for the most part, refer to the Battle of Britian for this advantage.

Any excuse for a few pictures, EH :-)

A pic of a Brewster Buffalo in Finnish Service,a hat tip to www.warbirdalley.com for the pic

And the Buffaloe's oppostion, hat tip to www.warbirdsovernewzealand.com for the Soviet pics

A pic of the I-153 Biplane, IIRC the I-153 was the version of the I-15 that had retractable landing gear.

And a pic of the I-16 Rata

Well off to work the insulboard and sheetrock are calling me :-)

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

14 posted on 03/24/2005 5:53:56 AM PST by alfa6
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To: SAMWolf

Good afternoon, Foxhole

Wow. Men at war on skis. The more you learn, the more you realize you don't know.

Here's to another excellent thread.


72 posted on 03/24/2005 11:38:26 AM PST by tomball
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To: SAMWolf; Samwise
In the words of my father-in-law, Antti Olavi Pönkänen, who fought in this war: "Our lakes are full of dead Russians."

The Finns were indeed overwhelmed by the huge numbers opposing them.
In the words of one observer/participant of that period:
So many Russians! Where will we bury them all....


73 posted on 03/24/2005 11:41:16 AM PST by archy (The darkness will come. It will find you,and it will scare you like you've never been scared before.)
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To: SAMWolf
"They found Soviet soldiers huddled around fires in -40° weather easy prey to sub-machine gun fire and grenades. Almost any wound was fatal."

In really cold weather a wound is nearly always curtains unless you can get to shelter. Notice the Finns had one part dead and two parts wounded amongst their casualties.

I think we can all agree that Marshal Mannerheim was a man of the Right. Notice the difference between Mannerheim and Josef Stalin, a man of the Left, and a Red. Mannerheim took care of his troops, and to the best of his ability never wasted them. Look at Stalin. Look at Adolf Hitler, Brown on the outside and Red on the inside. Those two wasted their men as if they were nothing, and they were nothing to Stalin and Hitler.

Never forgive, never forget.
87 posted on 03/26/2005 12:55:42 AM PST by Iris7 (A man said, "That's heroism." "No, that's Duty," replied Roy Benavides, Medal of Honor.)
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