The FReeper Foxhole's TreadHead Tuesday - PanzerKampfwagen V - Panther - Feb. 17th, 2004

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[SAMWolf]

Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.

...................................................................................... ...........................................

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PanzerKampfwagen V
Panther

After meeting the Soviet T-34 tank in late 1941 the German army was considerably shaken to find that there was a tank better than its PzKpfw IV. Although work on a successor to the PzKpfw IV had started as early as 1937, which eventually became the Tiger heavy tank, it largely incorporated features from the earlier development prototypes and owed nothing to the T-34 design. After examining captured T-34s during an "on the spot" investigation, the key features of the T-34 design were assessed. The three main characteristics were:

• the sloped armor which gave optimum shot deflection
• the large road wheels which gave a stable and steady ride
• the overhanging gun, a feature previously avoided by the Germans as impracticable

Wooden model of the Daimler-Benz proposal

Having received the commision's report on November 25 1941, the Heereswaffenamt contracted with two armament firms, Daimler-Benz and MAN, to produce designs for a new medium tank in the 30-35 ton class. To be ready for the following spring, the specifications called for a vehicle with 60mm frontal armor and 40mm side armor, a high velocity 75mm gun and the front and sides to be sloped like the T-34.


MAN Panther Ausf. D

In April 1942, the two designs were submitted, with an interesting contrast. Daimler-Benz proposal was an almost unashamed copy of the T-34 in layout, with the addition of a few refinements. It had a hull shape similar to the T-34 with turret mounted well forward; the driver sat within the turret cage. A diesel engine was fitted with transmission to the rear sprockets. Paired steel bogies without rubber tyres were suspended by leaf springs. Other features included jettisonable fuel tanks on the hull rear in T-34 fashion.


Panther Ausf. A

Hitler was impressed with the Daimler-Benz "T-34 type" proposal, although he suggested that the gun be changed from the 75mm L/48 model to the longer L/70 weapon, and prototypes went into production. Leaf springs were cheaper and easier to produce than torsion bars, and the diesel engine would have been an advantage in later years when petrol supply became restricted. However, the Heereswaffenamt preferred the MAN design, since simply copying the T-34 was unpatriotic and there were mechanical features of the T-34 which made copying an impractical proposition for German manufacturers.


Panther Ausf. G

The MAN design displayed original German thinking, sophisticated rather than simple. It had a higher, wider hull than either the Daimler-Benz design or the T-34, with a large turret placed well back to offset as much as possible the overhang of the long 75mm gun. Torsion bar suspension was used with interleaved road wheels, while a Maybach petrol engine was proposed, with drive to the front sprockets. The internal layout followed conventional German practice with stations for the driver and hull gunner/radio-operator in the front compartment.


The crew of a Panther, Eastern Front, April 1944

Militarily, there were two important prerequisites in the comparison of the two models: mass production should start in December 1942, and the weapon should be of superior quality to counter the numerical material superiority of the enemy. Daimler-Benz was not able to produce the turret for the deadline, and needed modifications on the turret as well. The recommendation of the MAN's proposal was presented to Hitler on 13 May 1942, and accepted. At the same time the specifications were restated, increasing the frontal armor thickness to 80mm, a change increasing the weight to 44 tons. By that time much of the design, like wheels and suspension, had been completed and subcontractors at work; throwing additional strain on components designed for the original weight, which lead to problems of unreliability in action.

[Cannoneer No. 4]

M16 Half Track

If you look at an American Half Track and an American White Scout Car, you will see considerable similarities. The Half Track was a relatively inexpensive way to give a truck cross-country mobility.

The experiences of many with Half Tracks and Bren Gun Carriers and Rams and full tracked gun tractors led to the development of purpose-built full tracked vehicles. Half Tracks have better mobility than trucks, but not as good as full tracks.

I used to have to fill out a maintencance form for the M113 that required me to write CARR PERS FT, and I had been doing that for some time before I ever found out what that meant. CARRIER PERSONNEL FULL TRACK

[SAMWolf]

Thanks Cannoneer No. 4.

I always figured they used the White Scoutcar as the bassis for our halftrack. The entire front end is almost the same.

[SAMWolf]

M3 White Scout Car

M-3 Halftrack

[Professional Engineer]

The M16 is my favorite halftrack. Thanks for the link, interesting reading there.

[radu]

Good afternoon to all at the Foxhole!

To all our military men and women, past and present,
THANK YOU for serving the USA!

I hope everyone is having a wonderful day!

[snippy_about_it]

Good afternoon radu.

[SAMWolf]

Afternoon Radu. ISn't the sun still out back there?

[Professional Engineer]

I don't see it.

/sarcasm

[Cannoneer No. 4]

Free Republic Treadhead Ping

archy; Gringo1; Matthew James; Fred Mertz; Squantos; colorado tanker; The Shrew; SLB; Darksheare; BCR #226; Imacatfish; Tailback; DCBryan1; Eaker; Archangelsk; gatorbait; river rat; alfa6; Lee'sGhost; Dionysius; BlueLancer; Frohickey; leadpenny; skepsel; Proud Legions; ExSoldier; King Prout; Professional Engineer

[snippy_about_it]

ROTFLOL. I was just thinking, dang Sam has a good eye. It's like he has all the planes and trucks and tanks and guns memorized. And then I see your post. Too funny!!!

[Soaring Feather]

Hiya Doo!!

I see you have been cleaning house, too.

It has been going on for two days for me. :-(

Oh well, I have been on the laptop playing around, too.
I downloaded a whole bunch of stuff to play around with! Now I'm on the Mac as I don't know how to copy my music files to play them here at FR.

Good to see you Doo. :-) Thinking abourt TN today.

[radu]

Howdy snippy!

[snippy_about_it]

You're up early. Isn't the sun still out in TN?

[radu]

ISn't the sun still out back there?

hehehe....up til about 15 minutes ago, the clouds have been so heavy the sun couldn't hurt me. Now the sun is breaking through for the first time in a few days.
Guess I'm in trouble, huh? LOL!

[SAMWolf]

LOL! Yeah it takes an expert eye to notice the similarities. Good thing we have people at the Foxhole to point them out. ;-)

[Professional Engineer]

[SAMWolf]

I remember a story about a Congressman who was visting the troops and asked a soldier if it was true that the German MG's were going all the way through the M3 halftracks armor.

The soldier supposedly replied, "Oh No, they just come through one side and then just sort of rattle around". :-)

[SAMWolf]

Just don't burst into flames or turn into a pile of dust on us. ;-)

[Professional Engineer]

RUH ROH That'd ruin your whole day!

[SAMWolf]