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The FReeper Foxhole Studies Operation BOLO and the Birth of the Wolf Pack - November 3rd, 2003
www.afa.org ^ | 11/1998 | See Educational Sources

Posted on 11/03/2003 12:00:27 AM PST by SAMWolf

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To: SAMWolf
Wow! You think big I was just thinking of a small link at the top with the rest of your links!
101 posted on 11/03/2003 10:29:56 PM PST by quietolong
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To: SAMWolf
27-"THere were all kinds of restrictions. Certain targets were "off limits", planes were required to fly certain "ait lanes", the air war (even target selection) was pretty much being run by politicians (read Johnston) in Washington."

There were many many stooooopid idiotic restrictions. I know, I was forced to enforce many of them.

There are many names on that black wall in Washington, put there by Washington, including some, I unfortunately contributed to, until I 'learned'.
102 posted on 11/03/2003 10:37:37 PM PST by XBob
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To: Valin; U S Army EOD
37-"two of their agents drove on it in a Volkswagon bug"

I seem to remember the incident, in the 70's I believe.
103 posted on 11/03/2003 10:41:38 PM PST by XBob
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To: w_over_w
74 - I arrived at Ubon shortly after Col Olds departed, he was legendary, and got promoted to General. and our wing commander (Colonel Humphries) was bound and determined to get his first star too, over our dead bodies. He wasn't nearly as talented as Olds and no one liked or respected him.
104 posted on 11/03/2003 10:46:59 PM PST by XBob
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; E.G.C.; Victoria Delsoul; colorado tanker; U S Army EOD; Darksheare

AA-2 ATOLL
K-13 (R-3 or Object 310)
PL-2 / PL-3 / PL-5

The 24 September 1958 Chinese acquisition of an American AIM-9B Sidewinder missile marked the beginning of a breakthrough in the development of Soviet air-to-air missiles. The missile, fired from a Taiwanese F-86 Sabre aircraft, lodged without exploding in a Chinese MiG-17. The missile was sent to Toropov's engineering office to be copied, and the product the K-13, long the most popular Soviet air-to-air missile. The Sidewinder had a number of valuable features, not least of which was the modular construction that facilitated ease in production and operation. The simplicity of the AIM-9 was in marked contrast to the complexity of contemporary Soviet missiles. The Sidewinder's infrared-guided homing head contained a free-running gyroscope and was much smaller than Soviet counterparts, and the steering and in-flight stabilization system were equally superior. Gennadiy Sokolovskiy, later chief engineer at the Vympel team, said that "the Sidewinder missile was to us a university offering a course in missile construction technology which has upgraded our engineering education and updated our approach to production of future missiles."

The Soviets soon made advances over the original Sidewinder model, making dozen of modifications to the initial design. In 1960 series-production of the K-13 missile (also called R-3 or Object 310) began. In 1962 the R-3S (K13A or Object 310) became the first version to be produced in large numbers, though its homing operation took much more time (22 seconds instead of 11 seconds). In 1961 development began of the high-altitude K-13R (R-3R or Object 320) with a semiactive radar head, which was entered service with combat aircraft in 1966. The training versions were the R-3U missiles ("uchebnaya", barrel with a homing set, not fired from an aircraft) and the R-3P ("prakticheskaya" differing from the combat version by absence of an explosive charge). The RM-3V (RM denoting "raketa-mishen" [target-missile] served as an aerial target. During late 1960s the Vympel team began working on the K-13M (R-13M, Object 380) modification of the K-13 missile, which in 1973 was certified as an operational weapon. It has a cooled homing head, a radio rather than optical closing-in igniter, and a more potent warhead. Analogous modifications of the R-55 resulted in the R-55M missile. The last version of the K-13 is the R-13M1 with a mofified steering apparatus.

The K-13 missile was produced in China as the PL-2 (updated versions PL-3 and PL-5) and also in Romania as the A-91. The PL-5E [Pili = Thunderbolt, or Pen Lung = Air Dragon] air-to-air missile has a maximum mobility overload of 40g, exceeding the 35g of the AIM-9L of the United States. Mobility overload a unit for measuring the mobility of aircraft. The larger the value the better the aircraft can adapt to violent mid-air mobility. An air-to-air missile with a great overload means that the attacked side is less likely to escape the attack). The speed of the missile is Mach 2.5 (2.5 times sound speed) and its maximum range is 14,000 meters.

Specifications

Year 1961
Type short-range missile
Modifications AA-2 - infra-red guidance
AA-2-2 "Advanced Atoll" - semi-active radar guidance
Wingspan (AA-2) 0.45 m
Wingspan (AA-2-2) 0.53 m
Length (AA-2) 2.8 m
Length (AA-2-2) 3.0 m
Diameter 0.12 m
Launch weight 70 kg
Max. speed 2850 km/h
Maximum range 6.5 km
Propulsion solid propellant rocket motor
Guidance passive infra-red homing or semi-active radar homing
Warhead proximity-fuzed blast fragmentation, 6 kg
Service USSR, India, South Yemen, Romania, Afghanistan, North Yemen, North Vietnam, Albania, Nigeria, Uganda, Iraq, Poland, Syria, Algeria, Sudan, Morocco, Somalia, Angola, Bangladesh, Peru, Yugoslavia, Mozambique, China, Libya, Hungary, Laos, North Korea, Ethiopia, East Germany, Finland, Czechoslovakia, Cuba, Bulgaria.

Cloned Sidewinders - The K-13A/AA-2 Atoll

The Atoll traces its genealogy to the early AIM-9B. Numerous stories exist on how the AIM-9 fell into communist hands. One suggests a turncoat German officer drove some friendly GRU agents to a Luftwaffe base and loaded an AIM-9 into a truck, subsequently transporting it across the Iron Curtain. Another more probable story refers to a dogfight between the Nationalist Chinese and Red Chinese over the Formosa straights in the early sixties, during which an AIM-9B embedded itself in the fuselage of a Shenyang F-6 fighter where it failed to detonate.

Whichever way it transpired, the communists by the late sixties deployed a missile which was very hard to distinguish from the AIM-9B. Many USAF aircraft in Vietnam fell to sniping tail aspect GCI hits by Atoll firing MiG-21s or F-8s, and the Atoll has since become the most common heatseeking missile in Third World use.

Like the AIM-9B, the Atoll requires a skilled user to be effective at its best, and therefore in Third World confrontations the weapon has been of questionable usefulness. Well, at least it looks like a Sidewinder !

The Sidewinder has stood the test of time, and spending 40 years at the cutting edge is a tribute to its original designers, who can be justly proud of their basic design. While its newer derivatives may look different and use different guidance principles, they will all trace their ancestry to the Naval Weapons Centre's original fifties program. The Sidewinder must be acknowledged as the most successful heatseeking missile design of all times.

A sort of urban legend has sprung up surrounding these air battles. According to a widely-reported story, during one of these air battles, one of the Sidewinders failed to explode when it struck the tail of a MiG. The MiG pilot managed to stagger back home, and found upon landing that the unexploded Sidewinder missile was still jammed in his tailpipe. This Sidewinder missile was passed along to Soviet intelligence, and the Soviets promptly proceeded to copy the design virtually bolt-for-bolt, producing the K-13 (AA-2 "Atoll") air-to-air missile.

Building a copy of a MiG-21 Fishbreath from flattened Coors cans.

MiG Pilot; The Final Escape of Lt. Belenko by John Barron is interesting. September 6, 1976. Developed to counter the B-70, but the B-70 was cancelled due to missile defenses.

Q: When you were growing up in Russia the book Spartacus, by Howard Fast, was an inspiration to you. What was inspiring about it?

Belenko: As brief as possible, you can't keep a free soul in a cage. You can't keep eagle in a cage. I'm talking about Spartacus. And that's a very short answer to the influence of that book.

Thus did Johnson--on the first business day after Kennedy's funeral--reverse the latter's NSAM 263 of Oct 63 calling for withdrawal of advisers 1000/mo. [Hint: A rough draft was found dated several days before JFKs Dallas accident.]

Fine, Kennedy had to go--but:

Johnson's ROE's and target list nitpicking and refusal to bomb Hanoi and mine Haiphong turned military victory into political defeat.

Here's to the hottest of eternities for Landslide Lyndon.

Recommend Flight of the Intruder.

Also recommend an AIM-9 up the six of the REMFs courtmartialing Col. Alan West.

Powell and Armitage and the lace pantaloons restrict ROE's in Iraq.

The correct balance in my own "new tone" is one each daisy cutter per individual terrorist celebration.

Hi, Saddam!

And one of these babies per square kilometer of Tikrit, Faluja and any other recalcitrant demos.

105 posted on 11/03/2003 11:17:09 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
That's right it was a "B" (see my # 100)
The Sidewinder The Missile no one ask for, wanted, and is still the worlds best!

Victor Belenko The MiG 25 Pilot who landed his craft in Japan.

http://www.margaritaville.com/roadtrip/oshkosh/entry7.html

http://www.hallstar.net/victor.html

http://www.geocities.com/siafdu/viktor.html


106 posted on 11/03/2003 11:38:32 PM PST by quietolong
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To: XBob
There were many many stooooopid idiotic restrictions. I know, I was forced to enforce many of them.

There are many names on that black wall in Washington, put there by Washington, including some, I unfortunately contributed to, until I 'learned'.

Thanks for your service. I don't envy you the memories of having to work under those restrictions.

107 posted on 11/03/2003 11:42:42 PM PST by SAMWolf (I'm immortal - so far.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Evening Phil Dragoo.

As brief as possible, you can't keep a free soul in a cage. You can't keep eagle in a cage.

Something the Communists never learned and our Liberals still have to learn.

108 posted on 11/03/2003 11:46:12 PM PST by SAMWolf (I'm immortal - so far.)
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To: SAMWolf
A good read Did not know about this.
109 posted on 11/03/2003 11:48:18 PM PST by quietolong
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To: PhilDragoo
BTTT!!!!!!
110 posted on 11/04/2003 3:10:16 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: quietolong
This may have happened, I know we had one of theirs stuck in a Navy plane. I saw the photograths and the actual missile. The Volkswagon story I heard from two sources plus I read about it in a magazine somewhere.
111 posted on 11/04/2003 4:28:45 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Just plain Wootten)
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To: XBob
I saw an Atoll at Indianhead, MD in 1966 so it would have been sooner. Possibly 1964/1965.
112 posted on 11/04/2003 4:30:45 AM PST by U S Army EOD (Just plain Wootten)
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To: Valin
Do yourself a favor

I did. LOL. I was the seventh post. ;)

It was a great story wasn't it. Thanks for the link, I hope everyone gets to see it.

113 posted on 11/04/2003 4:43:56 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: GailA
thanks for the update on Tony.
114 posted on 11/04/2003 4:44:41 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: PhilDragoo
Thanks Phil. I like your "new tone".
115 posted on 11/04/2003 4:52:12 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: XBob
Thank you for your service and for sharing your experience at the Foxhole.
116 posted on 11/04/2003 4:54:39 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: PhilDragoo; quietolong
Thanks! And yes it did have a "war story" kind of feel to it.
117 posted on 11/04/2003 6:42:59 AM PST by Valin (We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give.)
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To: U S Army EOD
*chuckle*
Fuze setter.

Now I know where to look for all the missing fuze wrenches and fuze setters my unit seemingly evaporated.
/ joke.

Sorry about the lag in response.
Been sorta busy.
118 posted on 11/04/2003 5:32:54 PM PST by Darksheare (DemUn, justification for exorcism.)
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To: quietolong
Ugh....
119 posted on 11/04/2003 5:38:33 PM PST by Darksheare (DemUn, justification for exorcism.)
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To: SAMWolf
Mike, his son said he INSISTED on going to church Sunday to 5 am Mass. The Col is one of those people you will not say no to. He ran against 'boss hogg' the 30 year incumbent Speaker of the TN House last year and nearly beat him. Strictly a grassroots campaign. First time that has happened since boss hogg was elected.
120 posted on 11/04/2003 6:11:23 PM PST by GailA (Millington Rally for America after action http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/872519/posts)
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