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The FReeper Foxhole Studies the German 88mm - Fliegerabwehrkanonen (Flak) AAA - Oct. 27th, 2003
see educational sources | various

Posted on 10/27/2003 3:55:42 AM PST by snippy_about_it



Lord,

Keep our Troops forever in Your care

Give them victory over the enemy...

Grant them a safe and swift return...

Bless those who mourn the lost.
.

FReepers from the Foxhole join in prayer
for all those serving their country at this time.



...................................................................................... ...........................................

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Fliegerabwehrkanonen (Flak) AAA



German 88mm FLAK


FLAK - Its origin is the German phrase for antiaircraft defense cannon - FLiegerAbwehr Kanone.

FlaK-Fliegerabwehrkanone (German) AA artillery; also sometimes given as Flugabwehrkanone or Flugzeugabwehrkanone

World War II veterans who fought in the Mediterranean or European Theaters are far too familiar with the distinctive sound or “boom” of the German “Achtacht” or 88mm Flugzeugabwehrkanone (Flak) gun. Although originally designed as an anti-aircraft weapon and assigned to the Luftwaffe or German Air Force, during the Spanish Civil War and later, the North African campaign, the 88 earned a well-deserved reputation as a highly effective ground combat weapon used against tanks, troops and fortifications.

This famous weapon did, in fact, have its origins during the first World War, when guns of this caliber were used in an anti-aircraft role.


These guns were mounted on a 4 wheel trailers towed on specially fitted army lorries. When in action arms with jacks were swung out to form a secure firing platform. For that time these guns were extremely mobile and could swiftly be ready to fire.

The year was 1916 when these weapons entered service. They were manufactured by two factories, namely Krupps of Essen and Rheinmetall-Borsig. They were designated Geschütze 8.8 Kw Flak.



By the terms of the Versailles treaty in 1919, Krupps were forbidden to produce small caliber guns below 17 cm, and Rheinmetall were prohibited from making guns above this caliber. In order to overcome these restrictions by the Disarmament Commission, Krupp came to an agreement in 1921 with the Bofors Company in Sweden, whereby Bofors acquired the foreign rights for all Krupp gun designs in return for granting design and research facilities for Krupp`s design team at the Bofors Works.



By 1928, Krupp`s team, working in Sweden, had developed the plans for a new design of the 88 mm High Velocity Gun with the refinement of a semi-automatic breech which re-cocked the striker on ejection of the cartridge case. In 1931, a Krupp Designer took the finalized plans to Essen and production of the new 88 mm Gun began in Germany in 1933, by which time most of the Versailles Treaty Restrictions were being openly flouted by the Nazi Regime which gained absolute power in Germany that year.

The new Gun was designated 8.8 Flak 18, and first used in action with the German backed Nationalist Forces in the Spanish Civil War, 1936-39, where it was mainly employed in the anti-aircraft role for which it was designed. The Flak 18 was carried on a cruciform mounting with a wheeled bogie fore and aft for towing. Before firing it had to be lowered from the bogies and emplaced. Battle experience in Spain showed the need for a reduction in time taken to get the weapon into action, and provision for barrel changing after prolonged fire.


The famous German 'Eighty-Eight' in its original anti-aircraft guise. It later achieved fame as an anti-tank gun, but it remained the backbone of Germany's air defense throughout the war.


In 1936-37, therefore, improvements were made on the basic design, and the revised model, the 8.8 Flak 36, had a multi-section interchangeable barrel and a new trailer/ mounting, designated Sonderanhaenger 201, with an improved cruciform platform and a simpler method of lowering it for emplacement.

Lowering was effected by unwinding the winches on the two bogie/limber assemblies so that they tilted and thus lowered the platform to the ground. The bogie/limber assemblies were then wheeled clear and the cruciform side arms lowered. The mounting was leveled via the jacks on the end of each arm of the cruciform and spikes driven through the arms into the ground completed the emplacement of the weapon.



Most important improvement with the Sonderanhaenger 201, however, was the facility for firing the gun at a low angle against ground targets without the need for lowering the mounting to the ground. For firing from the traveling position, the side arms of the cruciform were lowered, the wheel brakes were applied by hand on the rear trailer, and chocks were placed behind the wheels. From 1938 many Flak 18s were retrospectively fitted on the Sonderanhaenger 201, and 50 of these were further modified so that one man could lay the gun for both line and elevation, though this feature was not continued.


Flak 37 mounted on the Sondergeschützanhänger (gun-trailer) 202.

From 1940 onwards both the Flak 18 and Flak 36 on the Sonderanhaenger ( Trailer ) 201 were fitted with shields to give the crew protection when firing at ground targets. Late models of the Flak 36 were fitted with a an improved trailer mounting, the Sonderanhaenger 202, which was fitted with twin wheels. The towing vehicle used for both Flak 18 and Flak36 was the Sd.Kfz 7 Tractor, built by Krauss-Maffei. This well known type of half track vehicle had seating for the gun crew and lockers at the rear for ammunition and equipment.


Sd.Kfz 7 Tractor, built by Krauss-Maffei (Half-track)


A similar weapon to the Flak 36 was the Flak 37 which was specifically produced for the anti aircraft role, and was fitted with a new data transmission system known as Übertragungser 37, suitable only for high angle engagements.


88mm Flak 37 on a special chassis


Both the Flak 18 and Flak 36 had a high angle range of 35,100 ft. and a horizontal range of 16,200 yards. They could fire high explosive (HE), armor piercing (AP) or smoke shells. The weight of the projectile was 20 lbs. (HE) or 21 lbs. (AP and smoke). Muzzle velocity was 2690 ft. per second with HE and 2620 ft. with AP.



In traveling order on the special trailer 201, the Flak 18 and 36 weighed 7 tons. Rate of fire was 15-20 rounds per minute.

The crew was 11 men, consisting of layer, trainer, breech worker, fuse setter, and five ammunition supply numbers, plus the detachment commander and the tractor driver. When firing against ground targets two ammunition numbers became the range and deflection setters respectively, and the fuse setter became an ammunition number. The senior ammunition number was in charge of ammunition supply and was the detachment second-in-command.


The famous 8.8 cm Flak 36 in action as anti-tank gun in Russia, 1942. Note the use of the stereoscopic range finder at right, which made possible for the 8.8 cm Flak 36 guns to hit targets at record ranges.


There were three methods of fire control, by radar or predictor though a data transmission system for AA fire, direct laying through the sights for the anti-tank role, and indirect fire in conjunction with a range-finder.

Flak 36s made their debut in the notorious anti-tank role at Halfaya during the Battle of Sollum, June 1941. Firing from concealed positions at short range, they destroyed 123 out of 238 attacking British tank. The Germans claimed a British tank for every 20 "88" rounds fired at Halfaya.


Deadly 88mm's were emplaced like this at Halfaya Pass on Rommel's orders. When dug in with their barrels only a little above ground they were difficult to detect and destroy. The white rings painted on its barrel, like notches on a gunslinger's revolver, tally the number of British tanks the formidable gun has destroyed.


The Flak 18 and Flak 36 models were produced in by far the greatest numbers of all the 8.8 series of guns. However, there were several important derivatives, less well known now because the war situation when they appeared restricted production, and they were less often seen in action.

Most important of all was the 8.8 cm Flak 41, developed and produced by Rheinmetall-Borsig as a true multi-purpose anti-tank/anti-aircraft weapon. It overcame the inherent disadvantage of the Flak 18 and Flak 36 in the anti-tank role by virtually turning the upright mount arrangement of the earlier models through 90 degrees to reduce the silhouette.


Flak 41

The barrel was lengthened and strengthened and the muzzle velocity increased to 3110 feet per second. Rate of fire was about 20 rounds per minute. The gun could be fired from the traveling position with the cruciform side arms extended, and the twin-wheeled Sonderanhaenger 202 was standard with this weapon. The cruciform was wider than that of the Flak 36. The Flak 41 entered service in 1943 and saw some service in the last stages of the North Africa campaign.

Krupp had been developing a similar multi-purpose 8.8 cm gun, but the Rheinmetall design, the Flak 41, was ready first, so it was decided to keep the Krupp model specifically as an anti-tank ( Pak ) and tank gun, since the use of the "88" in the anti-tank role in the desert and on the Russian Front had shown the desirability for a purpose-designed weapon of this caliber. Designated Pak 43, the Krupp gun had muzzle brake and was mounted on a field platform transported on single-wheel bogies similar to those of the Sonderanhaenger 201.


Pak 43

This weapon was lower than the Flak 41 but, of course lacked high angle elevation. The gun could be either lowered and emplaced for firing or it could be fired from the traveling position so long as the traverse was kept within 30 degrees either side of the longitudinal girders of the field platform. The barrel of the Pak 43 was 21 feet 7¼ inches long and the muzzle velocity with AP40 shot was 3705 feet per second. With APCBC, the MV was 3280 fps, and with HE, the MV was 2460 fps. With APCBC, it could penetrate 130 mm of armor at 1500 yards. This weapon entered service also in 1943.

Due to the urgency of the war situation at this time - and the scarcity of materials - many of the Pak pieces were mounted on a single axle field carriage, in which guise they were designated Pak 43/41. The carriage was of the split trail type and was of composite construction. The trail legs were the type used on the carriage of the 10.5 cm Model 18 howitzer and the solid disc wheels were of the type used with the 15 cm medium field howitzer. Weight of this weapon was 9600 lbs.


Pak 43/41


The tank and panzerjager guns in the 88 mm series had approximately the same performance, and fired the same ammunition as the Pak 43 and Pak 43/41. Some of the barrels were of the monobloc piece construction, others of the divided monobloc barrel type. The third model was also a divided monobloc barrel construction but the length of the rifling was increased. This was the gun that formed the armament of the Royal Tiger, Elefant, Panzerjager and the Jagd Panther.


Two Tigers w/Porsche turrets



Elefant



Two 'Ferdinands'





FReeper Foxhole Armed Services Links





TOPICS: VetsCoR
KEYWORDS: 88mm; aaa; artillary; flak; freeperfoxhole; german; michaeldobbs; samsdayoff; veterans; wwi; wwii
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To: Light Speed
I don't know how it should have been handled but I think that now that we are there we need to be able to shoot to kill our enemies.
101 posted on 10/27/2003 6:45:38 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: SAMWolf
There is a film I have seen on the History Channel where a tank commander comes up to the camera man and ask him if he wants to get a neat movie. He follows the tank to a wall and sets up his camera pointing at a German Tiger. Apparently the Tiger sees the guy with the camera and the turret starts to turn. At the same time the American M26 tank fires and the round hits the Tiger about mid point on the side of the turret and goes through both sides. You can see the German tank commander flop on the top of the turret as he falls out of the hatch with both legs shot off. The driver and assistant driver come out of their hatches about the time the American tank fires the second round and hits the hull killing one of them. The German tank starts to burn and you can see the driver hauling ass on foot for a building. I think he got away, but the rest of the crew was killed. I just rechecked the ballistics and the 90mm is about 40mps faster than the 88mm at the mussle. That particular 90mm was available about 1943 I think.

My father was XO of 15th Tank Bn, 6th Armor Division. He said the TDs were quite effective against tanks. The M4s were no match for the German tanks. He said their rounds would bounce off where the German guns would go clear through an American tank and then explode on the out side. He had seen Amercian tanks get hit like this and keep going.

The 88mm Armor Piercing High Explosive had an interesting fuze. It was the same used in Naval AP shells known as BDDD or Base Detonating Deceleration Discriminating. The way it works was, it partically arms when it is fired, when it hits something (the side of the tank) it arms, when it hits something else (going out the other side) it explodes. Therefore you get an explosion inside of the target. (Provided the armor is thick enough to make it work)
When this worked as designed, no tank could survive a hit like that.

There is a movie that was made right after WWII named "The Tanks Are Coming", you can still get this movie on VHS and is an excellent movie. They use M4's for the American tanks but use M36 to represent the Germans. The Americans get the M26's at the end of the movie. This would be a good movie to add to your collection and shows WWII veterans making a movie on how it really was. Not like Battle of the Bulge.
102 posted on 10/27/2003 6:56:32 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: U S Army EOD
I'm gonna have to see if I can find "The Tanks are coming", I have a recollection of a scene in a movie where some commander complains that the Shermans are always getting creamed and he gets promised the first Pershing. I waonder if that's the flick.

Battle of the Bulge, what a laugh that movie is.

That'd be an interesting scence to see with the Tiger getting taken out. I've scnec on of a Panther getting hit and burning in Colonge, as the crew bails out they get taken down by small arms fire.
103 posted on 10/27/2003 7:05:47 PM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SAMWolf
The Germans developed an Over Caliber round that slid OVER THE BARREL of the 37mm like the early Panzerfaust. It had a shaped charge and was probably about 120mm in diameter. It didn't go very far and was used when the tank was right of top of you.

And while we are on the subject, the Panzerfaust and the RPG2 (Rocket Propelled Grenade) are actually just over caliber recoiless "rifles". There is no rocket!!! You get a back blast out of the rear and the projectile comes out of the front. The RPG7 is a "rocket assisted" recoiless "rifle". It does have a rocket motor that fires after it is launched. What is interesting about it, is it has a tractor rocket motor, the nossles of the rocket motor are ahead of the propellent right behind the warhead. Take a close look at one of these and you will see them on the side behind the big part that goes boom.
104 posted on 10/27/2003 7:08:28 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: SAMWolf
You saw the right movie, but it was a private that went up to the division commander and complained about the M4s. The division commander sent him the first tank to come to his division. Based on the time the movie was made, about 1949 or so, it is really interesting. They also had a German in the American unit that always used to look through the prisoners for anybody he might know. He finally got to see his brother and his mother in one of the towns they went through. Great movie.
105 posted on 10/27/2003 7:13:38 PM PST by U S Army EOD (Nuke the gay,black, feminist, whales for Jesus)
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To: U S Army EOD
I thought that might be the flick. I saw that a looooong time ago. I remember my mom telling me about the 88's near her home. For some reason I remember that scence and the scene where the Pershing finally gets to the front and takes out a German 88 emplacement.
106 posted on 10/27/2003 7:20:34 PM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: U S Army EOD
...see them on the side behind the big part that goes boom.

LOL. I just know there is a technical term for that.

107 posted on 10/27/2003 7:24:38 PM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: U S Army EOD
The panzerfaust was a good AT weapon. they handed them out like candy to the Volkstrum at the end of the war.

Now the PanzerSchreck was more like our Bazooka except it used an 8.8cm rocket rather than the US 6cm rocket.


108 posted on 10/27/2003 7:30:28 PM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it; All
Good night everyone.
109 posted on 10/27/2003 9:00:22 PM PST by Soaring Feather (~Poets' Rock the Boat~)
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To: bentfeather
Good night Feather. See I'm not ignoring you ;-)
110 posted on 10/27/2003 9:05:13 PM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf; bentfeather
We're busy!!
LOL.

Y'all look busy. LOL!
Now ms. feather, why would anyone want to encumber themselves with shoes in sunny CA.?

111 posted on 10/27/2003 9:28:34 PM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: snippy_about_it; SAMWolf
Placemarker for tomorrow. Sidelined with injury.
112 posted on 10/27/2003 9:29:44 PM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
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To: PhilDragoo
Evevning PhilDragoo

Nothing serious I hope. Thanks for dropping by and letting us know.
113 posted on 10/27/2003 9:33:26 PM PST by SAMWolf (Let's head over to the Foxhole and quaff a few root beers. (Phil Dragoo))
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To: SAMWolf; snippy_about_it
*giggle* Glad y'all liked the fishing pic. I'll let my hubby know you enjoyed it....he's the one who gave it to me, with my friends at FR in mind. :-)
114 posted on 10/27/2003 11:01:08 PM PST by radu (May God watch over our troops and keep them safe)
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To: PhilDragoo
Awwww. Get well soon, hope it's not serious.
115 posted on 10/28/2003 4:01:00 AM PST by snippy_about_it (Fall in --> The FReeper Foxhole. America's History. America's Soul.)
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To: The Mayor

Gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that all shore leaves have been approved. The bad news is that the Captain wants to do some water-skiing before we hit port.

116 posted on 10/28/2003 10:31:26 AM PST by PsyOp ( Citizenship ought to be reserved for those who carry arms. - Aristotle.)
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To: SAMWolf
That's what I thought. :)
117 posted on 10/28/2003 12:04:23 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: SAMWolf
Thanks, Sam .. that is precisely the information I was looking for.

This is a book I need to find and read. I have some excellent resource books on the Eastern Front but nothing of this detail regarding Citadel. Thanks!

118 posted on 10/28/2003 12:08:44 PM PST by Colonel_Flagg ("History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it." - Sir Winston Churchill)
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To: PsyOp
that pic just blows me away!
119 posted on 10/28/2003 3:41:19 PM PST by The Mayor (Through prayer, finite man draws upon the power of the infinite God.)
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To: The Mayor
that pic just blows me away!

Me too. Its right up there with a nuke sub doing an emergency blow. That's got to be a white-knuckle manuever.

120 posted on 10/28/2003 3:53:55 PM PST by PsyOp ( Citizenship ought to be reserved for those who carry arms. - Aristotle.)
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