The FReeper Foxhole Studies the German 88mm - Fliegerabwehrkanonen (Flak) AAA - Oct. 27th, 2003

see educational sources | various

[snippy_about_it]

I don't know how it should have been handled but I think that now that we are there we need to be able to shoot to kill our enemies.

[U S Army EOD]

There is a film I have seen on the History Channel where a tank commander comes up to the camera man and ask him if he wants to get a neat movie. He follows the tank to a wall and sets up his camera pointing at a German Tiger. Apparently the Tiger sees the guy with the camera and the turret starts to turn. At the same time the American M26 tank fires and the round hits the Tiger about mid point on the side of the turret and goes through both sides. You can see the German tank commander flop on the top of the turret as he falls out of the hatch with both legs shot off. The driver and assistant driver come out of their hatches about the time the American tank fires the second round and hits the hull killing one of them. The German tank starts to burn and you can see the driver hauling ass on foot for a building. I think he got away, but the rest of the crew was killed. I just rechecked the ballistics and the 90mm is about 40mps faster than the 88mm at the mussle. That particular 90mm was available about 1943 I think.

My father was XO of 15th Tank Bn, 6th Armor Division. He said the TDs were quite effective against tanks. The M4s were no match for the German tanks. He said their rounds would bounce off where the German guns would go clear through an American tank and then explode on the out side. He had seen Amercian tanks get hit like this and keep going.

The 88mm Armor Piercing High Explosive had an interesting fuze. It was the same used in Naval AP shells known as BDDD or Base Detonating Deceleration Discriminating. The way it works was, it partically arms when it is fired, when it hits something (the side of the tank) it arms, when it hits something else (going out the other side) it explodes. Therefore you get an explosion inside of the target. (Provided the armor is thick enough to make it work)
When this worked as designed, no tank could survive a hit like that.

There is a movie that was made right after WWII named "The Tanks Are Coming", you can still get this movie on VHS and is an excellent movie. They use M4's for the American tanks but use M36 to represent the Germans. The Americans get the M26's at the end of the movie. This would be a good movie to add to your collection and shows WWII veterans making a movie on how it really was. Not like Battle of the Bulge.

[SAMWolf]

I'm gonna have to see if I can find "The Tanks are coming", I have a recollection of a scene in a movie where some commander complains that the Shermans are always getting creamed and he gets promised the first Pershing. I waonder if that's the flick.

Battle of the Bulge, what a laugh that movie is.

That'd be an interesting scence to see with the Tiger getting taken out. I've scnec on of a Panther getting hit and burning in Colonge, as the crew bails out they get taken down by small arms fire.

[U S Army EOD]

The Germans developed an Over Caliber round that slid OVER THE BARREL of the 37mm like the early Panzerfaust. It had a shaped charge and was probably about 120mm in diameter. It didn't go very far and was used when the tank was right of top of you.

And while we are on the subject, the Panzerfaust and the RPG2 (Rocket Propelled Grenade) are actually just over caliber recoiless "rifles". There is no rocket!!! You get a back blast out of the rear and the projectile comes out of the front. The RPG7 is a "rocket assisted" recoiless "rifle". It does have a rocket motor that fires after it is launched. What is interesting about it, is it has a tractor rocket motor, the nossles of the rocket motor are ahead of the propellent right behind the warhead. Take a close look at one of these and you will see them on the side behind the big part that goes boom.

[U S Army EOD]

You saw the right movie, but it was a private that went up to the division commander and complained about the M4s. The division commander sent him the first tank to come to his division. Based on the time the movie was made, about 1949 or so, it is really interesting. They also had a German in the American unit that always used to look through the prisoners for anybody he might know. He finally got to see his brother and his mother in one of the towns they went through. Great movie.

[SAMWolf]

I thought that might be the flick. I saw that a looooong time ago. I remember my mom telling me about the 88's near her home. For some reason I remember that scence and the scene where the Pershing finally gets to the front and takes out a German 88 emplacement.

[snippy_about_it]

...see them on the side behind the big part that goes boom.

LOL. I just know there is a technical term for that.

[SAMWolf]

The panzerfaust was a good AT weapon. they handed them out like candy to the Volkstrum at the end of the war.

Now the PanzerSchreck was more like our Bazooka except it used an 8.8cm rocket rather than the US 6cm rocket.

[Soaring Feather]

Good night everyone.

[SAMWolf]

Good night Feather. See I'm not ignoring you ;-)

[radu]

We're busy!!
LOL.

Y'all look busy. LOL!
Now ms. feather, why would anyone want to encumber themselves with shoes in sunny CA.?

[PhilDragoo]

Placemarker for tomorrow. Sidelined with injury.

[SAMWolf]

Evevning PhilDragoo

Nothing serious I hope. Thanks for dropping by and letting us know.

[radu]

*giggle* Glad y'all liked the fishing pic. I'll let my hubby know you enjoyed it....he's the one who gave it to me, with my friends at FR in mind. :-)

[snippy_about_it]

Awwww. Get well soon, hope it's not serious.

[PsyOp]

Gentlemen, I have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that all shore leaves have been approved. The bad news is that the Captain wants to do some water-skiing before we hit port.

[Colonel_Flagg]

That's what I thought. :)

[Colonel_Flagg]

Thanks, Sam .. that is precisely the information I was looking for.

This is a book I need to find and read. I have some excellent resource books on the Eastern Front but nothing of this detail regarding Citadel. Thanks!

[The Mayor]

that pic just blows me away!

[PsyOp]

that pic just blows me away!

Me too. Its right up there with a nuke sub doing an emergency blow. That's got to be a white-knuckle manuever.