Ron Paul, Rudy Giuliani and Double Standards

TheAtlantic.com ^ | 13 Nov 2007 10:56 am | Andrew Sullivan

[SJackson]

I notice how you refuse to condemn Robertson and his Giuliani connection.

Absolutely, I don't think Pat Robertson is a Jewhater. His 9/11 comments were stupid.

Obviously we disagree.

[SJackson]

At this point there’s no reason to return the funds, it would clearly be solely politically motivated. This is an ethical decision that anyone can make in an instant.

[jmc813]

Haven’t read any comments yet, but I’m expecting the cognitive dissonance of the Paul-bashers to reach pretty high levels here.

[jmc813]

The contension that Giuliani hasn't been criticized, particularly when made here, on FR, where his supporters are banned isn't credible.

It's just that you 4 or 5 hardcore Paul bashers spend 90% of your posts on Paul who has no chance while mostly ignoring Rudy who has a very good chance of winning the nomination and f'ing up the GOP beyond belief. Things that make you go hmmmmm....

[George W. Bush]

I will again note your clearly anti-Republican sentiment in dismissing the Republican Jewish Coalition as a miniscule organization, not worth consdering in the context of accepting Jewhater support. Which the Republican Party does not do, one candidate does.

No, he doesn't welcome their support or encourage it.

As for the size of RJC, just how many members do they have? How much money do they donate (it's a tiny fraction of what Jewish organizations give Dims)? And how many voters can they muster in the early primary states (including Florida where their voting power will be reduced by half due to the RNC punishing them for moving up their primaries)?

---

	Estimated Jewish Population	Total Population*	Jewish Percent of Total
Florida	653,435	17,789,864	3.7
Iowa	6,140	2,966,334	0.2
Michigan	87,665	10,120,860	0.9
Nevada	69,600	2,414,807	2.9
New Hampshire	9,970	1,309,940	0.8
South Carolina	11,225	4,255,083	0.3
Wyoming	430	509,294	0.1
Total	*6,452,030	296,410,404	2.2

Jewish Population of the United States by State - JewishVirtualLibrary.com

---

As for the GOP and your selective outrage, I will point out again that these same hate groups latched onto Pat Buchanan in the 2000 race, sure they had found their man. He proved them wrong by selecting a black woman as his VP candidate. They promptly fled to supporting Bush and they did participate in the Battle for Florida when Black, the St*rmfr*nt leader (and his young son who ran St*rmfr*nt For Kids) both went at least one of the 2000 rallies in Floriduh including Black leading the group who drove Jesse Jackson off the stage at one of the big pro-Gore rallies. Bush also received support from the leader of Christian Identity and other notorious racists. So why aren't you applying the same standard to Bush/Cheney that you try to apply to Ron Paul?

As I said, your outrage and memory are mighty selective.

[NeoCaveman]

Sullivan certainly seems to have his panties in a bunch.

And in other news, water is still wet.

[George W. Bush]

You frequently infer you've some relationship with the Paul campaign. Do you have a position with them?

I have never said any such thing. You're the first one to even imagine it.

Why don't you post a thread on Pat Robertson and his pervasive antisemitism, there are many Evangelicals here, there's plenty of criticism of Robertson here on occasion, maybe I'll learn something.

I think I am documenting it in my earlier post about Robertson's long history of such speech and writings.

[SJackson]

It's just that you 4 or 5 hardcore Paul bashers spend 90% of your posts on Paul who has no chance while mostly ignoring Rudy who has a very good chance of winning the nomination and f'ing up the GOP beyond belief. Things that make you go hmmmmm....

I use far more than 90% of my posts on Paul, you know that having checked them.

If you think accusing Giuliani and Robertson of being antisemites is going to damage them you're an idiot.

Go hmmmmmmm all you want, when you come up with a viable conspiracy, feel free to post it.

[KentTrappedInLiberalSeattle]

hen you come up with a viable conspiracy, feel free to post it.

Oh, great. Another spittle-flecked, twenty-five minute diatribe about "international banking interests," coming right up.

[padre35]

I’m not certain what particular “good” it does to “Well,,these guys are worse...”

Judith Regan just filed that 100 million dollar lawsuit based on the idea that NewsCorp wanted her to lie to protect Jules’s support for the shamed Bernie Kerrick, that is pretty serious allegation of pro Rudy Bias, however it has nothing to to with Ron Paul.

If Paul wishes to accept money from Stormfront etc once it becomes obvious where the money is coming from, then he had better strap on his armor and prepare to take the slings and arrows of unfavorable media opinion.

For me, I don’t care that he took money from Stormfront, they are merely one more political group in America, they can use their money to speak same as any other group, now there are people who do care, and a childish “Pat and Jooles” comparison is trying to play an outrage card that doesn’t exist and is foolish to try and use.

[SJackson]

Good, I'm glad to hear the campaign doesn't buy into Pat Robertson/Rudy Giuliani are antisemites stupidity.

I'm clueless what Buchanan has to do with anything, he wasn't a Republican in 2000 so neonazi support is irrelevant to the GOP.

I've criticized Buchanan numerous times as to past conduct, and have pointed to his Holocaust denial article in Spotlight, Willis Carto's predecessor to American Free Press who advertises Paul as columnist, and his suggestion, rejected, that the GOP embrace parts of David Dukes constituency, another Paul supporter, as amongst the reasons for the roughly 70% drop in Jewish Republican votes between 1988 and 1992. I'm consistant on the issue.

And I acknowledge your contension that Jew voters aren't worth worrying about, there aren't enough of them.

And your contempt for the Republican Jewish Coalition.

Typical hard left DailyKospositions.

I bet Freedom's Watch pi**es you off too, those lousy neocons, running pro-Petraeus ads.

[jmc813]

Go hmmmmmmm all you want, when you come up with a viable conspiracy, feel free to post it.

No conspiracy at all, I'm pretty sure you're a closet Rudy fan.

[SJackson]

No conspiracy at all, I'm pretty sure you're a closet Rudy fan.

Ron Paul and his folk know everything.

[George W. Bush]

Judith Regan just filed that 100 million dollar lawsuit based on the idea that NewsCorp wanted her to lie to protect Jules’s support for the shamed Bernie Kerrick, that is pretty serious allegation of pro Rudy Bias, however it has nothing to to with Ron Paul.

I think it's worth pointing out that Fox News is asserting that Regan was fired for supposedly antisemitic remarks. Regan says she can provide a witness, a temporary secretary, who listened in on the line during the call in question and can back her up that she said nothing remotely antisemitic.

Interesting that another operation having to do with silencing opposition to or clearing the path for the leftwing mayor also has accusations of antisemitism, isn't it? All the while, Giuliani is embracing Robertson who is one of the most criticized figures by Jewish organizations.

[jmc813]

I notice you didn’t deny it.

[KDD]

No conspiracy at all, I'm pretty sure you're a closet Rudy fan.

I'm pretty sure you're right.

[George W. Bush]

And I acknowledge your contension that Jew voters aren't worth worrying about, there aren't enough of them. And your contempt for the Republican Jewish Coalition.

It isn't contempt. It's facing up to the actual numbers. While under-forty Jewish voters and the Orthodox are notably more Republican than older Jewish voters, it will be at least 2012 or 2016 before we can expect any significant rise in the numbers of Jewish voters.

And RJC can generate only a very very tiny fraction of fundraising for the GOP as compared to the vast sums they raise for Democrats.

Instead of snarky comments, why don't you post on the actual numbers of Jewish voters in the early primary states and on the amount of fundraising they have done for Republicans? Isn't that the more reasonable measure of how seriously we should take the RJC's political positions, their debates, how to weigh their influence in electing Republicans?

via Wikipedia:

Critics, in particular Jewish Democrats, note that a large majority of Jews have voted Democratic in federal elections in the past 20 years, according to exit polls. Based on exit polls, the only ethnic group more pro-Democratic than Jews are African-Americans.

In the 2000 presidential election, exit polls indicated that only 19% of Jews voted for the George W. Bush, while 79% voted for Al Gore (with 2% voting for Ralph Nader).

In the 2006 federal elections, a CNN exit poll indicated that 87% of Jews voted Democratic.[3]

In certain state and local elections, Republicans have received greater support from the Jewish community. In the 2005 electon for Mayor of New York City, Republican Candidate Michael Bloomberg received 51% of the Jewish vote. [4]In the 2003 Recall election in California, an estimated 31% of Jews voted for Republican Candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger.[5]

In the 1980 Presidential election, 39% of Jews voted for Republican candidate Ronald Reagan. However, Republicans have not received even a plurality of the Jewish vote since 1924.[6]

[padre35]

You do realize that regan was fired in 2006 after writing that OJ Simpson “I did it” book, she was fired by Harper Collins first, for saying that “A Cabal was working against her at the company” whether she said “Jewish” or not is in doubt, but the fact that she said “Cabal” is not in doubt.

As well as for using her publishing division Reganbooks, to publish the failed OJ simpson book.

And irony of irony, Judith Regan is Jewish herself...

[SJackson]

I understand you position.

Ron Paul will accept support from unsavory places.

Rudy Giuliani and Pat Robertson are antisemites, you’ve called me an anti-Semite too, far more reprehensible than that anyone Paul accepts support from.

In that vein, the Republican Jewish Coalition should be criticized, and Jews don’t vote for Republicans anyway, so who cares what they think.

Got ya!

Important to note your opinions are the position of a Ron Paul supporter, in no way the positions of the Republican Party.