Thomas A. Droleskey on the Lies of Protestantism

Seattle Catholic ^ | September 29, 2003 | Thomas A. Droleskey

[RnMomof7]

Doesn't even seem to realize I'm not a protestant

They lump all non Catholics into the same barrow . Heck I have even see the Mormons and Jw's thrown in..

[RnMomof7]

1 Corinthians 4.1 Let a man so account of us as of the ministers of Christ and the dispensers of the mysteries (Greek - musterion) of God.
Apparently your "Christianity" excises large chunks fo the Bible. Try doing a search of "musterion" in a Greek New Testament.

The Church is not the appendage to the priesthood; but the minister is the steward of God to the Church. Man shrinks from too close contact with God; hence he willingly puts a priesthood between, and would serve God by deputy. The pagan (like the modern Romanish) priest was rather to conceal than to explain "the mysteries of God."

The minister's office is to "preach" (literally, "proclaim as a herald," Mat 10:27 ) the deep truths of God ("mysteries," heavenly truths, only known by revelation), so far as they have been revealed, and so far as his hearers are disposed to receive them. JOSEPHUS says that the Jewiwhile the pagans concealed from all but the "initiated" few, the mysteries of theirs.
Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset and David Brown

Was Josephus wrong? Is the purpose of the church not to reveal God to men ? Or is it to keep men from the "mysteries" from men?

[RnMomof7]

Anyone know where I can buy some indulgences?

I'll go an earn some for you. How much are you willing to pay per day off in Purgatory? You can send payment via credit card to my paypal account.

Don't worry Patriot..Protestants have more that enough in the purgatory fund

An indulgence of 3 years is granted for reading the bible for 15 minutes i figure I am fully covered and the rest I can give to my Catholic family that will probably be in deep debt

[RnMomof7]

2 Kings 12.23 But now that he is dead, why should I fast? Shall I be able to bring him back any more? I shall go to him rather: but he shall not return to me.

Having just discussed this on another thread it was pointed out that the Jews did not believe in the after life..David was talking about the grave

[dangus]

>>>>Obviously, lying to obtain an annulment is a grave sin.

>>Tell that to Teddy Kennedy, and the other well connected. ..if you have the money the "church" will aid and abet your lie, and your adulteress marriage that follows

Like I said, lying to obtain an annulment is a grave sin. We all know Ted is a digusting reprobate sinner. And he knows it too. So I'm going to ignore all these silly negations of yours and go back to the heart of the matter.

Your responses have nothing to do with the issues at hand, except this:

>>When you look at the number of Catholics that are even semi faithful (attend mass..but do not keep the church laws) your numbers drop significantly ..

Yes, which is why it is silly to use polls of American Catholics to determine what faithful Catholics believe. But of course you know that.

>>Surveys reported in the secular and Catholic press indicate that more than 60% of Catholics do not believe in the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist (Rochester, NY Newsweek/CBS).

Oh, but there you go anyway.

>>Protestants only count the people that "join " the church .

Actually, the numbers I used presume that all non-Catholic, non-orthodox Christians are Protestant. You use church members, and by that standard, only 1 in 4 Americans are protestant. So, I actually inflated the Protestant numbers for you.

>>The majority that you see in church on Sundays are not "official" members so they are not counted in the stats ..(BTW right now I am still on the rolls of the Catholic church as are my 6 Protestant children)

Doubtfully; you have to register with your parish, just as you would if you were Protestant. Figures which say 22% of Americans are Catholics are not based on baptisms, but on self-reporting. The catch is most lapsed Catholics (who have not found another church) identify themselves as Catholics. Lapsed Protestants join the 45% of Americans who simply describe themselves as "Christian," "Protestant," or "Non-religious," along with you "unofficial members."

>>I attend a bible presbyterian church ,but I have not sought membership.So I am not counted by them

This is true. YOu, too would be counted among that 40%.

[RnMomof7]

What makes you think "word of God" refers to Scripture here?

So you do not think that scripture is the word of God?

 This was given by the Holy Spirit to record and proclaim..  

[malakhi]

No, Constantine asked for the Bishop of Rome to call it.

Oh really?

Eusebius, Life of Constantine, Book III, Chapter VI: How he ordered a Council to be held at Nicaea.

THEN as if to bring a divine array against this enemy, he convoked a general council, and invited the speedy attendance of bishops from all quarters, in letters expressive of the honorable estimation in which he held them. Nor was this merely the issuing of a bare command but the emperor's good will contributed much to its being carried into effect: for he allowed some the use of the public means of conveyance, while he afforded to others an ample supply of horses (1) for their transport. The place, too, selected for the synod, the city Nicaea in Bithynia (named from "Victory"), was appropriate to the occasion. (2) As soon then as the imperial injunction was generally made known, all with the utmost willingness hastened thither, as though they would outstrip one another in a race; for they were impelled by the anticipation of a happy result to the conference, by the hope of enjoying present peace, and the desire of beholding something new and strange in the person of so admirable an emperor. Now when they were all assembled, it appeared evident that the proceeding was the work of God, inasmuch as men who had been most widely separated, not merely in sentiment but also personally, and by difference of country, place, and nation, were here brought together, and comprised within the walls of a single city, forming as it were a vast garland of priests, composed of a variety of the choicest flowers.

Even so, the Bishop of Rome refused to call for it in Rome, instead choosing Nicea, where it would be freer of Constantine's influence.

Please tell me you aren't serious.

Constantine did not rule from Rome. After his defeat of Licinius, he made Byzantium his imperial headquarters. The council took place in Constantine's palace in Nicea. Constantine was present throughout the proceedings.

I don't know where you get your information from, but I'd suggest looking into more reliable sources.

[malakhi]

Having just discussed this on another thread it was pointed out that the Jews did not believe in the after life

Link, please? This is patently untrue.

[Havoc]

You do realize that the little dictionary section at the back of your bible is not scripture.

Yes, I did, and that is why I never mentioned it and rather used the word scripture instead. Words mean things - ie the following.

Acts 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all [quarters], he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Saint is a general term used to describe Christians both living and dead. This is the practical use in scripture. The definitions you gave out of the dictionary and out of your own religion in no way comport to what is shown in scripture. Your canonization process hasn't yet entered into it and is rather moot once your definition is shown to be wrong.

[RnMomof7]

You are dreaming , I do not know one Catholic that can quote scripture ( except Hail Mary full of grace) or one they learned in a song Lier

Sorry, to claim ALL Catholics can "finish a quote of any verse from Mat to Acts "is the lie..

I have too many in my family and know too many Catholics that are "active "in ministries to believe that is true . That was a lie and not just a lie but a stupid lie .

hey Havoc..how much scripture did you know as a Catholic?

[RnMomof7]

No, my point was not that John was oraying to the dead; it was that those in Heaven are fully sentient, aware of what is happening on Earth, and praying to God about it.

Are they omnipresent and omniscient?

[conservonator]

You are confusing me, are you admitting that you lied or that you should have phrased your statement better?

[RnMomof7]

Well, see this is the problem with Sola Scriptura. Catholics *do* believe that universal revelation ended with the bible. The problem is that definitions, historical context, and interpretation are all necessary to understand any writing. "Tradition" isn't additional revelation; it's context, interpretation and definition.

LOL LOL LOL...Sorry that is just two funny ..So you do not "know" it, you have no evidence of it but some one some time said it so it must be true..LOL

Attention Faithful

Turn brain off the pope is speaking" LOL

So how do we know what saint means? You tell me.

By the clear meaning given is scripture

Act 9:32 And it came to pass, as Peter passed throughout all [quarters], he came down also to the saints which dwelt at Lydda.

Act 9:41 And he gave her [his] hand, and lifted her up, and when he had called the saints and widows, presented her alive.

Act 26:10 Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against [them].

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.

Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

Rom 15:25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

Rom 15:26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

Rom 16:15 Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them.

1Cr 6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?

1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

2Cr 9:12 For the administration of this service not only supplieth the want of the saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God;

2Cr 13:13 All the saints salute you.

Phl 4:22 All the saints salute you, chiefly they that are of Caesar's household.

All that are saved by the Blood of Christ are Saints

[dangus]

>>Are they omnipresent and omniscient?

I do not know. I'm not sure what the Catholic teaching is. I did hear it taught once that when we pray, angels are dispatched bearing the messages, but I'm suspect whether that's sound doctrine.

[RnMomof7]

Yes, which is why it is silly to use polls of American Catholics to determine what faithful Catholics believe. But of course you know that.

Didn't like that stat huh?

Doubtfully; you have to register with your parish, just as you would if you were Protestant. Figures which say 22% of Americans are Catholics are not based on baptisms, but on self-reporting. The catch is most lapsed Catholics (who have not found another church) identify themselves as Catholics. Lapsed Protestants join the 45% of Americans who simply describe themselves as "Christian," "Protestant," or "Non-religious," along with you "unofficial members."

I still get literature from the Catholic church. The parish Priest was surprised I was a Protestant when we met..

The Vatican counts baptism

"(AGI) - Vatican City, Feb. 8 - The number of Catholics in the world is increasing. The number of people baptised, says the new Pontifical Yearbook, "has increased worldwide, from 757 million in 1978 to 1.06 billion in 2001." The dynamics of such an increase varies from continent to continent: while in Africa there was an increase of 148 pct, in Europe there was a situation of stability, while evident increases were seen in Asia, the Americas, and Oceania."

[RnMomof7]

I think it was mentioned on this link when discussion of unborn children going to heave

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/979616/posts

[dangus]

None of what you have written, NONE OF IT! provides a definition, although with all definitions, much can be learned from context. That, then, becomes *interpretation*'

>>All that are saved by the Blood of Christ are Saints

Funny, that is not made evident in any passage you have provided. All that work, for nothing. So keep your derisive laughter, and ignorant put-downs to yourself. But I would say that all who are sanctified by the Blood of Christ are Saints.

( I slightly misspoke previously be referring to past saints; I should have been more precise by saying, "all that have gone OR WILL GO directly to Heaven." But we cannot know who WILL GO.)

[malakhi]

The Vatican counts baptism

And once you're counted that way, you can't get off the list. Even me, an excommunicate apostate, is still counted as a "baptized Catholic".

I've looked into it. The church will annul marriages, but there is no provision in canon law to annul a baptism. The best you can do is public repudiation.

[malakhi]

Whew, I'm not gonna wade through that thread to find it!

[RnMomof7]

This is what I found on the net.On the topic

The Jews of every century since the times of King David, have always revered this wonderful King of Israel and his teachings in the Psalms. In Psalm 104, David speaks of many of the living things the Father created and he says, (V.30), "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created" and in V.29, "Thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust."

In Psalm 6:5, the great King David relates death to the grave and writes.. "In death there is no remembrance of thee; in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Obviously King David’s perception of death was simply that of which he spoke in Psalm 115:17, "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence (the grave)"

Surely if David was indeed a ‘man after God’s own heart’, he would know the truth about death and ‘life after death’. He did…..his view of death was very clear and is expressed in Psalm 146:4, "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth: in that very day his thoughts perish." These simple truths show clearly that when man dies he goes back to the ground to silence, not to heaven to praise God. The Apostle John made sure we learn of this by writing, "No man hath ascended up to heaven" (John 3:13).

Perhaps the poster looked to the Psalms also ??