How an Icon Brought a Calvinist to Orthodoxy: A Journey to Orthodoxy

christianity.com ^ | Robert K. Arakaki

[Romulus]

I realise that the point of the Barney cover was probably to satirise the trivailisation of Christmas into a materialistic greed-fest. But the artists who created the cover is entirely ignorant of the Christian tradition that he's manipulating. He understands the Virgin & Child image as something purely decorative or sentimental. He has enirely overlooked the underlying theology, because a theology of images is not part of his tradition. Lacking an iconographic tradition of his own, he (and you, I'm afraid) appropriates a tradition he doesn't understand, offending even though he meant to convey a moral point.

[Romulus]

Hodgetria means "she who shows the way".

I know.

[drstevej]

Thanks for your commentary.

[MarMema]

Leonid Ouspensky's The Meaning of Icons suggests that it's the Platytera icon -- the Theotokos of the Sign, and related types, including the Theotokos with Christ Enthroned -- are more concerned with Mary as the one who held God in her womb.

In the Orthodox church all icons of the Theotokos represent either the salvation available to man, or the Theotokos as the image of the church, in that she carried Christ within her.

The Virgin of the Sign is a visual representation of Holy Scripture - "The Lord will give you a sign: behold, a virgin will conceive and bear a son..." (Isaiah 7:14)

[drstevej]

I don't know the author or intent of the person who did the cover but I see your point. Certainly a theology of images is not a part of my tradition.

[Romulus]

Yes, "integrity". In the sense of a principled devotion to consistency and unadulterated wholeness.

[drstevej]

***In the sense of a principled devotion to consistency and unadulterated wholeness.***

I am consistent with my convictions/tradition here. I am not consistent with your convictions/tradition.

Why should my integrity be measured by your yardstick?

[MarMema]

isn't that funny?

I am so used to being caricatured with dinosaurs in the Orthodox church, that I saw it as poking fun at our Orthodox slowness to change, clinging to antiquity, etc.

[drstevej]

***I am so used to being caricatured with dinosaurs in the Orthodox church, that I saw it as poking fun at our Orthodox slowness to change, clinging to antiquity, etc.***

Never thought of that connotation.

[MarMema]

Just FYI, quite some many months ago, in the wee hours of the night, on a very obscure thread with some mormons, Steve and I had a discussion about icons.

And he is "cool" about them.

Now if he registered for the iconoclast association of america since then, I can't say. We'd have to get hold of one of their membership rosters to check...

[Romulus]

I wonder if those cats even know such a thing as the Orthodox Church even exists.

[MarMema]

So what's the listing of articles for that particular month?

[drstevej]

I had forgotten that discussion. Not many LDS around lately.

[Romulus]

Why should my integrity be measured by your yardstick?

Again you misunderstand me, further emphasising our lack of a common vocabulary. I do not mean "integrity" in a moral sense, but in the existential sense. I'm speaking of integrity in the literal sense of perfect wholeness -- as a mode of being, wholly consistent and without any latent contradictions. When I suggest that your post lacked integrity I meant that it was poorly thought through and doesn't bear scrutiny -- not that it's immoral.

Integity in the existential sense is an absolute quality, and not subject to measurement by my or anyone else's "yardstick." It's an either/or category.

[drstevej]

***So what's the listing of articles for that particular month? ***


#138 November/December 1994
Special Christmas Issue (Madonna with Barney)
CARTOON: I'm sorry Mary, but I didn't have time to put up a tree—besides, we don't even live here by Sisson
INTERVIEW: Ole Anthony The terror of televangelists
ARTICLE: The Ministerial "What I Should Have Said/What I Said" What stinks in here? by Scot Marvin
ARTICLE: A Typical Christmas Card Newsletter Doesn't it occur to people that no one cares? By Richard Wilkinson
INTERVIEW: Maria Muldaur Pumpernickel Christianity
CARTOON: The End of the Sermon Is Near! (man carrying sign in church)
ARTICLE: Barney Agonistes Oh Barney! My Barney! by Darrel Spenst
ARTICLE: Bible Heroes: Boaz It's no fun being an illegal alien by Scot A. Marvin
ARTICLE: Fosdick Was Dead (A Christianity Carol) Have we learned nothing? by Robert Price
CARTOON: "It's my father...the Pastor…he's always pushing for an antecdote." (baby on psychiatrist's couch) by Jonny Hawkins
ARTICLE: Girls Not Allowed Inside the Promise Keepers Sweat Lodge by Doug LeBlanc
ARTICLE: Icons and Tigers and Bears, Oh My! Are icons dangerous or sacred? By Doug Peterson
ARTICLE: Fifteen Dollars I had picked up a girl of the night by Rex Downie, Jr.
DOOR DARE: We've been getting some strange requests lately by Dan Pegoda
LOSER OF THE MONTH: R-rated gospel Reverend, I'm Available
BACK DOOR: The Secret Self. The secret self is where Jesus is

[MarMema]

Like Humpty Dumpty had integrity once....before the fall, that is.

[MarMema]

Well there ya go! An article on icons and another on Barney.
Put em together and you get....the cover.

[drstevej]

***ain you misunderstand me, further emphasising our lack of a common vocabulary.***

Yep.

***When I suggest that your post lacked integrity I meant that it was poorly thought through and doesn't bear scrutiny -- not that it's immoral.***

Well, that's better. [sigh]

[MarMema]

Well, that's better. [sigh]

Better for you, but Humpty has never been the same.

[drstevej]

I don't have the issue but the article on icons might be interesting. The Door is not always predictable on their take on a topic.

BTW, the issue on Robert Tilton was great! And the picture on the front with him as the Joker was priceless.