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Arminianism -- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Modern Pelagianism
Response to: Calvinism- False Doctrines of the "Pope" of Geneva ^
| August 13, 2003
| OP
Posted on 08/13/2003 6:04:31 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: connectthedots
ping to #260
To: drstevej
Where does, you know, basic Calvinism fit in? Or even Amyraut's Calvinism, for that matter?
Oh. Never mind.
262
posted on
08/16/2003 2:09:45 PM PDT
by
OrthodoxPresbyterian
(We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty.)
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; P-Marlowe
Do a google search on hyper Calvinism. It would be fair to presume that someone such as yourself ought to be smart enough to think that the words 'extreme' and 'hyper' are synomymous.
can offer nothing more than an "I don't know"
If you, like most extreme Calvinists can offer nothing more than an "I don't know" to the problem of reconciling a belief that God predestined those who would have eternal life and those who would be condemned to Hell with the concept of a loving and just God; you lose the debate at the outset.
If you are going to quote me, please do it in context. You have shown yourself to be intellectually dishonest in this particular instance. If you have no explanation other than 'I don't know' to the above problem with the Calvinist position on Predestination, just admit it. If you have one, I'd like to hear it; it would make you an icon within Calvinist circles. Good luck. If Edwin Palmer's answer to the problem was "I don't know", a doubt that you can do any better.
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
extreme Calvinists=hyper-calvinists=all Calvinists
264
posted on
08/16/2003 2:16:21 PM PDT
by
Wrigley
To: drstevej
I believe that on several Calvinism threads ago, I provided a link to that five-point Calvinist Dr. Phillip Johnson who quite systematically identified the traits of a hyper-Calvinist. I also recall you were strangley silent in commenting on his article.
To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; Jean Chauvin
Jean hasn't had much luck in getting ctd to show how Palmer is a hyper-Calvinist. Maybe you'll have more luck.
I'm starting to think that Palmer's book is the only one ctd has read(?) about Calvinism.
266
posted on
08/16/2003 2:18:20 PM PDT
by
Wrigley
To: RnMomof7
I was convicted by the Holy Spirit long before I ever read the Bible.It doesn't build our faith it reinforces it.
267
posted on
08/16/2003 2:19:32 PM PDT
by
Codie
To: Wrigley; OrthodoxPresbyterian
It is like nailing Jello to the wall. :-)
To: connectthedots
Provide the link to the Philip Johnson discussion. I think your recall is foggy.
To: Wrigley
Never said that. Maybe you can help OP with his problem I stated in p[ost 263. OP wants to engage in a debate on a theological point, yet he can't even offer a rational, logical, or coherent defense of the most obvious and basic problem with Calvinism's position on predestination. Is it rational for OP to expect an explantion that consists soley of 'I don't know' to prevail in any debate?
To: Codie
I was convicted by the Holy Spirit long before I ever read the Bible.It doesn't build our faith it reinforces it. Then you disagree with Paul correct?
Given even your weak kneed endorsement of the Bible . If one never goes and reads one will have a house build on sand. It will be an ineffective faith
BTW How did you even know about the Holy Spirit in order to be convinced of the truth of Him?
Codie did you tell me one time you were a Modalist ? Or do I have you confused with someone else??
To: connectthedots
yet he can't even offer a rational, logical, or coherent defense of the most obvious and basic problem with Calvinism's position on predestinationWhich is??
Chips...... Check
Beer....... Check
Screen protector securely attached to monitor....Check
To: connectthedots; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Provide where OP has ever said "I don't know" here. You're jumping ahead for no reason. But if you need to live in a fantasy world, I won't stop you.
274
posted on
08/16/2003 2:26:46 PM PDT
by
Wrigley
To: drstevej
Hear is the link to the web site containing the Phillip Johnson article on
Hyper Calvinism. Will try to find the thread later today or tomorrow. Do a Google search on "Hyper Calvinism" and "Phillip Johnson" and you will get about 60 hits. I agree with Phillip Johnson for the most part.
To: RnMomof7
From post 263: If you, like most extreme Calvinists can offer nothing more than an "I don't know" to the problem of reconciling a belief that God predestined those who would have eternal life and those who would be condemned to Hell with the concept of a loving and just God; you lose the debate at the outset
. Can you not read before commenting?
To: connectthedots
***I agree with Phillip Johnson for the most part. ***
Just so you don't hide behind Philip's skirt, tell us exactly where you disagree with him. Otherwise, you have not defined what YOU mean by the term.
To: Wrigley
Provide where OP has ever said "I don't know" here. You're jumping ahead for no reason. But if you need to live in a fantasy world, I won't stop you. You should have waited for his answer before posing such a question. While you are waiting, why don't you provide your solution to this logical problem?
To: Corin Stormhands; xzins
You did provide a chart that lists Calvinists as "believers" and Wesleyans as "heretics." So, I guess it is kinda personal, but I never said you attacked me.Okay, we obviously disagree on this point, but let me explain it ONE MORE TIME -- when you Arminians attack the Gospel of John 3:3 (Calvinism), you are attacking the Gospel of Jesus Christ. It's NOT PERSONAL!!
I've never taken it as Personal. Why should I? You're attacking the Gospel of Jesus Christ... NOT ME, OP, the individual. By the same token, when I (correctly) Identify the Arminian "I am Able to Choose For God or Against God" dogma as the historically-factual definition of the term HERETIKOS... it's not personal.
It's strictly Business. Christians who love the Lord whould not willingly sell their spiritual endorsements to satanic HERETIKOS.
I did note that I believe you and many of your compatriots, while you say otherwise, don't really consider us Wesleyans to be saved. If what we believe hinges on what you call "the lie of Eden" how can we trust you when you call us heretics out of one side of your mouth and "brethren" out of the other?
Believe whatever you want. If you think that Calvinists do not believe in your own Salvation, fine -- think that of us if you want.
You forget what we believe -- God saves whom he pleases. Why should this not include Errant Arminians as well and Errant Romanists?
Methinks you find too much "judgment", where Calvinists find simply duty.
Is your FreeWill-ism a blasphemous heresy against God and Christ? Well, yeah, sure -- of course it is; has been ever since the Days of the Sadducees. That's a simple matter of History. But is that Heresy beyond the forgiveness of Jesus' Blood? Nope, never said anything of the sort. It's a Blaspheming Heresy which you have a Christian Duty to Repent in odebience to Christ, that's the matter.
I never said it was about "avoiding hell" or "securing heaven", just Righteous Christian Obedience to Jesus, simple as that.
279
posted on
08/16/2003 2:36:45 PM PDT
by
OrthodoxPresbyterian
(We are Unworthy Servants; We have only done Our Duty.)
To: drstevej
I used the qualifying word 'most' only because I find it rare that I agree totally with everything I read. But for purposes of this thread at this time, I will state that I agree with everything in his article. What is you comment on the article? I noted that the CRC is specifically mentioned in the article and his association of it with Hyper Calvinism. While OP may think he can simply brush off my comments, he doesn't have that luxury with a Godly man like Dr. Johnson, does he?
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