When clergy marry: An insider’s view

Catholic Net ^ | June 1997 | Lynnewood F. Martin

[sinkspur]

You denigrate them because the author is celibate and ignore those of the married Anglican Use convert in your own back yard. And to pretend that a Protestant, even a "papabile" like Dr. Steve, does anything like the duties of a Catholic priest is silly.

Fr. Hawkins has an Anglican Use parish, and he publicly expresses support for celibacy (he's married; I wonder what his wife thinks?).

Fr. John Gremmels, married pastor of a parish five times the size of Fr. Hawkins', thinks married priests would work in the Catholic Church. Gremmels is a Catholic priest, a MARRIED Catholic priest, who seems to be able to pastor the largest parish in the diocese of Ft. Worth.

[narses]

Too funny. You denigrate the author of this article, I point out a similar ordained priest who is married who makes the same argument, and rather than acknowledge your innapropriate behavior in attacking the Priest who wrote this, you respond with an unsourced anecdote supporting your position. You are a hoot Deacon.

[RobbyS]

Would a minister in your church be comparable to an RC deacon ?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

My married Orthodox pastor does a 7 day a week, twice a day schedule, with the assistance and rotation of our associate pastor, a married anesthesiologist who does the liturgical end on a part time basis. Our Lenten and Holy Day schedules are more elaborate than the RC schedules, and he manages those. He also manages to do adult classes, sick and elderly visits, and serves the community as a fire, police and FBI chaplain.

On top of that, he is always with his family, as they are deeply involved with him in all parish work.

Is there a salary? Sure - but with that salary, we get an entire family that is devoted.

Our guys handle it well.

[sinkspur]

you respond with an unsourced anecdote supporting your position.

You want John Gremmels' phone number so you can ask his opinion of celibacy?

[narses]

Another Red Herring. You ATTACKED this author because of his celibacy, I point out a priest in your area has the same, exact POV while with wife. You then drag out a Red Herring to avoid admitting your own insulting, illogical behavior. You persist.

[RobbyS]

You really haven't addressed most of the points that the writer raises about a whole sale change in the culture of the Clergy will completely change relationships inside the Church. We and the Orthodox have a special priesthood and generally Protestant churches do not. As Protestants often point out, we don't find this in the New Testament. It was a development of the post-apostolic period and one which the Reformers rejected along with the Sacraments.

[sinkspur]

You then drag out a Red Herring to avoid admitting your own insulting, illogical behavior. You persist.

I ask again. Do you want Fr. John Gremmels' phone number, the pastor of the largest parish of the diocese, who happens to be a MARRIED Catholic priest, so you can ask his opinion of celibacy?

Hardly a "red herring," narses. I'm calling you out.

[drstevej]

***Would a minister in your church be comparable to an RC deacon ? ***

Not sure what RC deacons do. Plus we have many ministers on our staff whose responsibilities vary greatly. So I can't answer your question. I am sure there is overlap, I am not sure how much.

[sinkspur]

You really haven't addressed most of the points that the writer raises about a whole sale change in the culture of the Clergy will completely change relationships inside the Church.

A wholesale change in the culture of the clergy might not be a bad thing.

The current "culture" has produced a sexual abuse crisis unrivalling anything in the history of the American Church.

[drstevej]

***Do you have children? I have oberved that it can be rough.***

Yes. A daughter who is 21 and a son almost 17. The experience in the church where the elders had no concern for my family was very rough on all of us. I should have left sooner, as I said. I took quite a few years for each of us to heal from the hurts.

My present church they both really love. My daughter is away at school most of the time but my son has fit in very well and knows more families than I do.

[RobbyS]

Your guys depend on a long tradition in which the role of married priest is well-defined. Our guys do NOT. It is always dangerous to institute radical reforms because people don't give due respect to the customs they are overthrowing. Customs exists for a reason and oftenwe don't understand that reason until after we have thrown out the custom and see the evils that result.

[narses]

Too funny, "I'm calling you out."

I point out your dennigration of the author because of his celibacy. You keep playing the strawman and red herring game and now you descend into Junior High antics. "I'm calling you out."!

What a hoot you are Deacon.

[drstevej]

Maybe sinky will become Protestant and we can find a place for him.

Nah, I don't think he's ready for anything that radical.

[RobbyS]

Even Luther children got little respect. Maybe your son will follow in your footsteps. In any case, the married clergy of Europe has produced great talent. Wasn't Bach a p.k.?

[narses]

From the article"

"Since I converted I have been appalled as the Church abandoned traditions centuries old and opted for changes to ways main line Protestantism has tried and found wanting. I am mystified by arguments by Catholic theologians that a particular custom or practice dates “only” from the 11th (or 13th or 16th) century. Why should something which has served the spiritual needs of Catholics for seven or eight centuries be discarded solely because it is only seven or eight centuries old?"

[narses]

He would need a better sense of humor, at least.

[RobbyS]

I do think that Sinky should look up an eastern rite parish. To me the solution would be gradually to expand the eastern rite. I mean over a couple of generations. Meanwhile the married deaconate could be expanded in the Roman rite and given more authority.

[sinkspur]

I point out your dennigration of the author because of his celibacy

The author is a celibate. If he's always had this view of celibacy, no wonder his wife left him 24 years ago.

I don't expect a celibate (who may be celibate because no woman will have him) to argue for anything but celibacy. So, I fully understand where the author is coming from.

[RobbyS]

What can I say? I am Burkean. Was it Robespierre or someone else who was described as a " terrible simplifier?" The Terror was a product of minds that hate all tradition.