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RECOVERING THE TRUTH & A COMING TO A CORRECT UNDERSTANDING OF JESUS
Bet Emet Ministries ^ | Unknown | Craig Lyons

Posted on 07/01/2003 10:22:12 AM PDT by ksen

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To: Quester
Gee, with your 'begotten' and the definition of 'flesh', does that mean that Restornu was right? The problem though is that there was nothing in the definition of flesh to denote anything but human flesh and blood. Nothing! Spiritutal flesh is something else, and animal flesh is something else. Either John mispoke, or you'll have to accept that Yeshua was flesh and blood, a human, mortal being.

I pick that John knew what he was saying, and that Yeshua was flesh. Human, mortal flesh.

1,761 posted on 07/11/2003 11:40:36 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
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To: malakhi
Where in scripture, then, can one find the rules for human sacrifice?

They're not there.

Yet God did call for such a sacrifice.
Genesis 22:1 And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am.

2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

1,762 posted on 07/11/2003 11:45:13 AM PDT by Quester
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To: SoothingDave; malakhi
(malakhi) Had Arianism prevailed, today we would read about the early Trinitarian heresy which actually taught that the Son was equal to the Father.

Granted. But then again, this theory works only if you accept that God plays dice with the universe.

With the risk of sounding too Calvinist, God gets what He wants. His Truth is marching on, etc.


God wants poverty, cruelty, suffering, the murder of millions in the name of any religion?

Is it not more likely that God permits these things to happen? That, in terms of eternity, our time on this earth is really no big deal?

1,763 posted on 07/11/2003 11:46:20 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: malakhi
It depends upon how you define "being". None of us is completely discrete and independent of our environment. Our "personal" being is contingent.

If I club you over the head hard enough you will cease to be, at least in this existence. You are a distinct being with boundaries. I am another. We aren't Borg, we have unique minds and wills.

God's nature is different from ours. We are instances of human nature. A new human being shares the nature, but is a distinct being.

Divine nature is singular. There is only one instance of a Divine Being. So any person who had a divine nature is, by this definition, that One Being.

SD

1,764 posted on 07/11/2003 11:50:04 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Quester
Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Why look at that! God says 1 + 1 = 1

Do you interpret this literally? What sort of superglue do you use to maintain a permanent bond with your wife? ;o)

1,765 posted on 07/11/2003 11:50:35 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: Quester
Jesus was not an animal (biblically).

Biblically speaking, can you provide an OT verse where a human was explicitly sacrificed, and provide the verses which outline the laws ordained for these human sacrifices?

Deut 12:32 - "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it. Thou shalt not add thereto nor diminish from it.

1,766 posted on 07/11/2003 11:50:50 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
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To: Quester
Yet God did call for such a sacrifice.

Keep reading...

Then Abraham put forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.
But the angel of the LORD called to him from heaven, and said, "Abraham, Abraham!" And he said, "Here am I."
He said, "Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him; for now I know that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son, from me." (Genesis 22:10-12)

1,767 posted on 07/11/2003 11:52:10 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: ET(end tyranny)
Either John mispoke, or you'll have to accept that Yeshua was flesh and blood, a human, mortal being.

I do accept that Yeshua was flesh and blood, a human, mortal being.

What I do not accept is that this, somehow, limits God from making Yeshua a manifestation of Himself, as well.

I believe that the God, ... Who exists outside of our space-time continuum, ... Whose creative works include quantum mechanics, etc. ... could do this, if He so chose.

1,768 posted on 07/11/2003 11:52:17 AM PDT by Quester
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To: ET(end tyranny)
100% + 100% = 200% Or 1 + 1 = 2

What, exactly are you adding up?

Who told you that a person needed to "add up" to 100?

If God is One, exactly what does it mean to be "half" God?

Is that anything like being "half pregnant"?

SD

1,769 posted on 07/11/2003 11:53:07 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: Quester; ET(end tyranny)
Either John mispoke, or you'll have to accept that Yeshua was flesh and blood, a human, mortal being.

I do accept that Yeshua was flesh and blood, a human, mortal being.

He's been told. Numerous times. He's engaging in serious strawman whacking.

SD

1,770 posted on 07/11/2003 11:54:09 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave
So any person who had a divine nature is, by this definition, that One Being.

And since through the hypostatic union human nature was united with divine nature, we are also, by this definition, that One Being. The one being that we share is not in our own "personal being", as you might put it, but in God. Thanks for clearing that up, Dave! :o)

1,771 posted on 07/11/2003 11:54:16 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: SoothingDave; Invincibly Ignorant
You would rather behave as a Jew than accept the leadership of the Church. You don't like what became of it, so you fantasise that God failed in protecting the Church from error.

I assume, based on your supreme arrogance, that you mean the RCC when you speak of the "Church".

Where do you find a promise that this "Church" is protected from error?

Has this "Church" you speak of ever committed an error?

1,772 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:01 AM PDT by OLD REGGIE ((I am a cult of one! UNITARJEWMIAN))
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To: OLD REGGIE
Asked and answered.

SD

1,773 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:32 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
Keep reading...

No problem.

Doesn't detract from my point.

1,774 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:50 AM PDT by Quester
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To: Quester
What I do not accept is that this, somehow, limits God from making Yeshua a manifestation of Himself, as well. I believe that the God, ... Who exists outside of our space-time continuum, ... Whose creative works include quantum mechanics, etc. ... could do this, if He so chose.

What, then limits you from believing that all of mankind, or the entire universe, is not likewise a manifestation of Himself?

1,775 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:53 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: Quester
That was a test of faith/obedience. Once God knew that Abraham was going to obey, God stopped him. Pretty good indication that God didn't intend for humans to be sacrificed.

Ge 26:5 - because Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

1,776 posted on 07/11/2003 11:55:55 AM PDT by ET(end tyranny) ( Luke 16:17 -- And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.)
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To: Quester
Doesn't detract from my point.

Sure it does. Far from condoning human sacrifice, we see that God does not want it.

1,777 posted on 07/11/2003 11:57:26 AM PDT by malakhi
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To: malakhi
And since through the hypostatic union human nature was united with divine nature, we are also, by this definition, that One Being.

No. The hypostatic union is in the person of Jesus. It is not universal to all humanity. Human nature is not the same as divine nature with respect to individual persons.

It is why we need to become part of the Body of Jesus, cause then we are united to the divine.

SD

1,778 posted on 07/11/2003 11:58:23 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: malakhi
Far from condoning human sacrifice, we see that God does not want it.

From us.

SD

1,779 posted on 07/11/2003 11:58:48 AM PDT by SoothingDave
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To: OLD REGGIE
I assume, based on your supreme arrogance, that you mean the RCC when you speak of the "Church".

For this instance, yes.

Where do you find a promise that this "Church" is protected from error?

Scripture.

Has this "Church" you speak of ever committed an error?

No.

SD

1,780 posted on 07/11/2003 12:00:17 PM PDT by SoothingDave
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