Posted on 06/30/2003 2:53:51 PM PDT by NYer
St. Josaphat must have certainly felt the deep sincerity of this unifying experential love shared with him by his fellow Orthodox Rus' family as deeply as the passage of the axe and bullet that were smashed through his body by the Orthodox lovers of Christ in Polotsk.
... here is yet another example of the hundreds of online Orthodox postings....
Be sure to not miss Abbé Guettée: The Papacy: Its Historic Origin and Primitive Relations, at the bottom of the page. That should cover all the official arguments in one fell swoop.
That comment was just plain stupid and ignorant. You're better than that.
Other portions of I Clement were discovered in the late 17th century and the 19th century. We currently have versions of I Clement in Greek, Latin and Syriac; some are 4th century, some are 12th century.
By 1875, I Clement was reassembled from a variety of translations and manuscripts for the first time since about 4th century.
Yes. Ss. Peter and Paul submitted to Nero, did they not? With those dear saints as our example, we are no less duty-bound to obey every authority on earth -- even the evil ones! -- as long as in so doing we do not render unto Caesar (the State) what rightfully belongs only to God. "Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment." - [Rom. 13:1-2]
We submit to Bible, Ecomunical Councils, Holy Tradition not to one man with "infallability".
“So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, ‘Do you understand what you are reading?’ And he said, ‘How can I, unless some one guides me?’” - [Acts 8:30-31]
Yours in Christian fraternity,
"The Church is one because God is one, and because Christ and the Holy Spirit are one. There can only be one Church and not many. And this one Church, because its unity depends on God, Christ, and the Spirit, may never be broken. Thus, according to Orthodox doctrine, the Church is indivisible; men may be in it or out of it, but they may not divide it.
According to Orthodox teaching, the unity of the Church is man's free unity in the truth and love of God. Such unity is not brought about or established by any human authority or juridical power, but by God alone. To the extent that men are in the truth and love of God, they are members of His Church.
Orthodox Christians believe that in the historical Orthodox Church there exists the full possibility of participating totally in the Church of God, and that only sins and false human choices (heresies) put men outside of this unity. In non-Orthodox Christian groups the Orthodox claim that there are certain formal obstacles, varying in different groups, which, if accepted and followed by men, will prevent their perfect unity with God and will thus destroy the genuine unity of the Church (e.g., the papacy in the Roman Church).
Within the unity of the Church man is what he is created to be and can grow for eternity in divine life in communion with God through Christ in the Holy Spirit. The unity of the Church is not broken by time or space and is not limited merely to those alive upon the earth. The unity of the Church is the unity of the Blessed Trinity and of all of those who live with God: the holy angels, the righteous dead, and those who live upon the earth according to the commandments of Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit."
What you think of as a church is even different from our meaning for the word.
That goes long way to explain Catholic stance with Nazi Germany, facist Italy, Utushi Croatia and Islamic Bosnia/Albania...thank you, finally someone say truth instead of denial of WW2 history.
Sorry, but we don't bend our knee to tyranny and turn blind eye in self serving "obedience" to earthly authority. We derive our law from God and we bend our knee to Christ no one else.
Question: Will the Orthodox be rushing to dissolve their parallel ecclesial structures in the Roman Patriarch's "Canonical Territory", i.e. North America, South America, Africa, and Western Europe if we dissolve the Unia? If the Unia are a mark of a bad conscience on our part, what are the Orthodox dicoeses in the Americas and Western Europe, along with the evangelization efforts made among Catholics there?
Let me know when it is the 12th of Never so I don't miss this generous act of reciprocity by the Orthodox in return for our restraining the Unia.
Okay. Shall we compare the number of Christian Marriages in Western Europe with Orthodox Europe? How about the number of Infant Baptisms? Do the Orthodox average three to four nfant Baptisms per Christian Marriage, as do the Catholics in most of Western Europe?
I've travelled all over Western Europe (Germany, Switzerland, Czech Republci, Italy, Austria, France). The Churches were generally full on Sunday, much to my surprise.
There are no "Catholic nations" anymore, just like there are no "Orthodox nations". This is a sad result of socialism's triumph.
Such unity is not brought about or established by any human authority or juridical power, but by God alone.
What's that to do with the price of tea in China? The authority of my Church is dependant on, and instituted by God alone. Human authority? Nope, don't see any here ... neither Priests, nor Bishops, nor Patriarchs, nor the Pope exercise human authority.
Try again. Or try apologising.
Thank God for 10,000 or even ten who carry on strongly, as you say.
Ahhh ... better 10,000 faithful Orthodox than 100,000,000 faithful Catholics. Christ is certainly pleased by this.
What a bunch of crapola.
I rather think Christ would have 100,000,000 souls who just made it to heaven by the skin of their teeth, than 10,000 great mystic saints and 99,990,000 Muslims lost forever because they knew not Christ, and their great mystic saint neighbors didn't think to share Him with them.
Or maybe you miss Pope's speech to Italians about dieing Italian nation?
I'm sorry you feel that way, since Christ's words through St. Peter are quite specific: we are to submit to all Earthly authority except when such submission would conflict with our duty to God. Since you refuse to obey that command, you are outside of the Will of God. I'll pray for you, though, and ask for your prayers in return.
In the end, every schism boils down to “Nobody's going to tell us what to do” -- in other words, to Pride. Pride was Lucifer's sin; it was Adam's, too. Pride will send us all to hell if we do not conquer it!
Yours in Christian fraternity,
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