Pope Again Reaches Out to Orthodox Church

Herald Tribune ^ | June 30, 2003

[B-Chan]

You're right. It was a stupid analogy. I'm sure when they come to throw us all to the lions we'll be shaking our fists at each other to the bitter end.

Forget I said anything.

[MarMema]

We don't have to shake fists. We can just be friends across the lines of different churches. There are no Orthodox who object to friendship or community among fellow Christians. In fact we are happy to share the Orthodox church with you as well, but you must become Orthodox officially in order for us to do that. :-)

The eastern church has already survived enough evil that we are rarely frightened of the future. Evil is part of this world.

[sinkspur]

I am sure the world is anxiously awaiting your next prediction with the same degree of concern we hold for this one.

There will follow us, you and me, a generation without contempt.

You really ought to pray for that, my friend. I do.

[MarMema]

I hold arrogance in contempt, but not you.

[sinkspur]

I hold arrogance in contempt, but not you.

So do I, but I don't see any arrogance.

One step at a time is not some clandestine plot.

It's just one step forward toward reunion.

One step. That's all.

[MarMema]

With the Grace of God your pope may become illumined and bring you all home! Now that would be a day to celebrate.

[Aquinasfan]

In the Davidic kingdom, the office of the vice-king was represented by a large key which the vice-king kept in a pouch which was slung around his neck. This historical office is mentioned in Isaiah 22, when authority is transferred from Shebna to Eliakim:

Isaiah 22

"In that day I will summon my servant, Eliakim son of Hilkiah.
21 I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of Judah.
22 I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

Jesus alludes to this office, and this passage, when he establishes His Church with Peter as the vice-king in Matthew:

Matthew 16

18 And I tell you that you are Rock, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

Jesus is the eternal King of the House of David as we see in Revelation.

Revelation 3:7

"To the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: These are the words of him who is holy and true, who holds the key of David. What he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open.

As the eternal King of the House of David, Jesus may give the office of the vice-regency to whomever he pleases. He chose to give the keys to Peter.

[Aquinasfan]

John 20

20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message,
21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one.

Which Church is united, the Catholic Church or the Orthodox Churches?

Matthew 18:17

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

To which church should we listen? To which church should we take doctrinal disputes? The Greek Orthodox Church? The Russian Orthodox Church? Which should I choose, and why? Or do I have to wait for a Council of the Orthodox Churches to tell me? Or does no means exist whereby a Council may be called? And doesn't that mean that there is, in principle, no logical means by which disputes may be settled? Was Jesus a liar (above)?

John 10:16

I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.

John 21

15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me more than these?"
"Yes, Lord," he said, "you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Feed my lambs."
16Again Jesus said, "Simon son of John, do you truly love me?" v He answered, "Yes, Lord, you know that I love you."
Jesus said, "Take care of my sheep."
17The third time he said to him, "Simon son of John, do you love me?"
Peter was hurt because Jesus asked him the third time, "Do you love me?"
He said, "Lord, you know all things; you know that I love you."
18 Jesus said, "Feed my sheep. I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."
19Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God. Then he said to him, "Follow me!"

[Patrick Madrid]

"Would you mind cut and pasting another 800 pages?"

Not at all, but only if you'll read and ponder at least some of it. For now, why don't you work on what's already there.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

His point (and it may be snowing in hell right now, because I agree with him), is that massive cut and paste work is simply not read, regardless of how good it is. People are doing other things at work and at home, switching windows, switching programs, and may not want to devote 45 minutes in one stretch to reading the equivalent of 30 typewritten pages - they'll break it down into discreet pieces. If they have to keep scrolling to where they left off, they simply won't read it.

Excerpts and links are more than just common courtesy, they will increase the likelihood that someone will review what you posted.

[TexConfederate1861]

The "Ecumenical Patriarch" is a TRAITOR to his own faith.
Not that this is anything new. He was educated by Jesuits, and I personally believe that like many other Orthodox apostates in the past, he will try to force a reunion with Rome, but as we say in Texas, "that dog ain't gonna hunt!"

If Rome wants reunion, let it abandon Vatican I & II to start with, and the filioque, and then maybe there would be a chance....but I personally doubt that will ever happen.

[TexConfederate1861]

not really....the Greeks and their Patriarch have been kissing the Pope's backside since 1967.

Their actions are not binding on the rest of Orthodoxy, and contrary to popular belief, the excommunication against the West is still in place.

[TexConfederate1861]

Sure...just abandon everything we believe...Sorry, I DON'T THINK SO....he can have his old title back, FIRST AMONG EQUALS...and that is ALL.

[TexConfederate1861]

You guys left us...not the other way around....I suggest you read the writings of St. Gregory the Great...(one of your Latin Popes)

He totally rejected the title of "universal bishop" or Vicar of Christ"........

[TexConfederate1861]

The bottom line is this...the Papacy bases most of it's claim to Primacy on the Clementine writings, which have been proven to be forgeries, and even Roman Catholic scholars will admit that point.

Reunion is NOT going to happen, Orthodox Christians have no desire for it to happen, because Latins are NEVER going to renounce their heresies, or Papal authority...so give it up

[TexConfederate1861]

In your DREAMS....you aren't a betting man are ya?

[Aquinasfan]

Sure...just abandon everything we believe...Sorry, I DON'T THINK SO....he can have his old title back, FIRST AMONG EQUALS...and that is ALL.

You haven't addressed any of my arguments.

What is your explanation of "the keys" given to Peter? Do you think Jesus was aware of Isaiah 22:22 and the significance of the key of the House of David, which Scripture describes Him holding in Revelation?

[RussianConservative]

I do not hate catholics, no issue with individuals....I really not care who runs catholic church either...so long as no sanctimonious drives to reunification launched by popes...so long popes not make speechs praising bombing of Orthodox while defending Islam tooth and nail. We not the other lung of church, we not the "lost" childe. We are not displaced in distrust. We can live like best friends but that not make us one and will not. We will never submit to dictator and Catholic church never return status patriarchy equal to all others in one Church body. So let agree on this and live like neighbors or we live like enemies.

[RussianConservative]

Maybe it catholics and pope who driven into arms of Orthodox...after all it is catholic country that threatened by militant Islam take over and atheist union.....hmmmm they might get wish but it will be different. We live and we see. I know several catholics who not want to be catholic and head to orthodox after all sex scandals, etc.

[Aquinasfan]

In fact, I found this quotation in Martin Luther from 1530, years after he had left the Church, "Why are you searching heavenward in search of my keys? Do you not understand, Jesus said, 'I gave them to Peter. They are indeed the keys of heaven, but they are not found in heaven for I left them on earth.'" This is Jesus talking, "'Peter's mouth is my mouth, his tongue is my key case, his keys are my keys. They are an office.'" Luther even saw it, "'They are a power, a command given by God through Christ to all of Christendom for the retaining and remitting of the sins of men.'" The only thing that Luther won't admit is that there was succession after Peter died, which is exactly what the keys denote, given their Old Testament background.

Dr. Scott Hahn on the Papacy