Catholic/Protestant Post - San Antonio Cathedral Hosts Neo-Pagan Lay Liturgy

The Wanderer | May 20, 2003

[drstevej]

I keep no files. FR does, however, and when you started this line of inquiry I wondered what was up so I browsed through your recent comments and found that one.

So what's up with the attitude?

[Atone]

A friend e-mailed this discussion post to me. If you really want to see just how terrible the April 29th event in San Fernando Cathedral was please go to the website of the Defenders of the Magisterium at:
www.dotm.org , Click "Newsletter", then to "Spring/Summer 2003." There are two pages of pictures. A friend of mine attended this event and was shaken by what he saw. He is the one who took the pictures.

[drstevej]

(1) The entrance procession with women sprinkling “sanctified” water on the people.	(2) A jubilant Sister Martha Ann Kirk bringing the bread to the altar.
(3) Women, dressed mostly in black, preparing the altar while Sr. Kirk (appears as high priestess?) happily waits.	(4) Sr. Kirk holding up the bread. Offertory meal?

 

[drstevej]

Sister Martha Ann Kirk, Religious Studies Professor at the University of Incarnate Word, performing .

[huskyboy]

Just when you think it can't get any worse, it invariably does.

At a minimum, the Cathedral will need to be reconsecrated after this deliberate desecration. Perhaps each of the churches in San Antonio could also celebrate a Mass of reparation.

Of course, this sacrilege will just be ignored, only to be repeated again.

Like I've said before, this is what the novus ordo service does to churches. This is nothing compared to the pictures I saw of what happened out in Oakland. Now, that was a full-blown Wicca "novus ordo" service. That just now got me thinking about something I saw yesterday:

Now, I see that this setting was the inspiration for the novus ordo. Then, when you consider that masons think - erroneously, I might add - all religions lead to God, you can easily make the connection.

Check out Traditio's commentary; scroll down to the May 23 entry. Hopefully, some more insights on the connection will get you thinking. To all those skeptical about what I've said before, there's nothing more sacrilegious than the abomination of desolation taking over the sanctuary. Don't believe me? Compare that picture to what you have at the novus ordo church, and let me know how the furniture is arranged up in there.

Remember: before Mass is ever said in a novus ordo church, the altar and tabernacle need to be brought back - along with the gold chalice, etc. - and the church (and essential items for Mass, if need be) need to be re-consecrated.

[Codie]

Your here to proslytize.Perhaps if you were more up front,I'd consider you less of a phoney.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

The above San Antonio pictures look like something from the goddess movement. It's very big out here. Ancient fertility rites and offerings to the goddess included prepared food, wine and crop bounty. The manner of dress, bare feet, dance and decor are typical, albeit with a Latin flair in this case.

[drstevej]

***Your here to proslytize.Perhaps if you were more up front,I'd consider you less of a phoney.***

At least I know your beef, now.

What surprises you that a person posting on the religion forum seeks to persuade others? I sure am not alone in this.

In what ways have I not been up front? I consider this a bogus and uncharitable charge. I answer questions as strightforwardly as I can. I don't hide behind an anonymous screen name. I have posted my church's website link.

So what's phony? Let's ping the other Catholics on FR and ask them if they agree with your assessment. I'll ping a few and you are welcome to as well.

BTW, I genuinely enjoy the interchange with FR RCs. I consider them friends despite significant theological differences.

[american colleen]

Hi guys... just my $.02

I'm sure drstevej considers me an apostate, but he is a pretty good guy who has never tried to convert me. He was kind enough to freepmail me (at my request) a pretty good explanation of his beliefs as I told him that Calvinism is beyond my mental capacity to comprehend. His freepmail went a long way to explaining the tenets of what he believes in, but I remain a committed Roman Catholic.

[drstevej]

Thanks, ac.

[Codie]

Then why does it seem he as an obession with Catholic threads?

[Desdemona]

Then why does it seem he as an obession with Catholic threads?

He only seems to comment when the subject is the Blessed Mother, the Saints or something that the protestants protest because "it's not in the bible" because that's all they accept. The protesting continues.

[drstevej]

First of all, Codie, there are so many RC threads in comparison to anything else. When there were other types of threads I posted there too.

Second, I have a PhD in Reformation history and theology which means I have at least a casual interest in these issues.

Third, I have learned a lot on these threads about contemporary issues in Catholicism and made a few friends along the way.

Fourth, what of it? AC just told you that even in freepmail, I did not try to proselytize her. Can you not countenance the possiblity that you wrongly judged me?

[drstevej]

Have I not been up front, Desdemona? Have I been phoney? Nah, I tease a bit but where my views differ I discuss them. Not once have I bashed Catholics to my knowledge. No post of mine regarding Catholicism has ever been pulled (a number of LDS related posts have, I admit).

Frequently, FR Catholics have urged me to come home to Rome. I don't consider that wronglul proselytizing of yours truly. Sometimes it is tongue in cheek, other times I take it as a sincere desire that I embrace Catholic teaching. No harm done, no offense taken.

A few RCs have been abrasive in response to my posts. I usually tease them back or ignore them. In the case of Catholic Guy, and adversary later became a friend. Codie, perhaps you will to. Either way... what you see is what you get.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Steve is a good guy. We can all post on any thread we want, even Catholics on Protestant ones. I have and I know you have too. We are all here to discuss religion and yes, we all think what we believe is "right". I would like to believe things can be discussed without thread policing or personal attacks.

[Desdemona]

Did I say you were phony? No, you've been perfectly honest. That much is true.

OTOH, many of us do pray daily that you and many others come home to Rome. But that has to be your decision.

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

I told him that Calvinism is beyond my mental capacity to comprehend.

LOL.... millenial this, preternist that, I can't keep up either!

[Codie]

No,your here for a reason.Did you make friends among the Mormons? Did you come to understand them?

[Canticle_of_Deborah]

Why are YOU here and why does anyone have to explain their presence here to you?

It's a free forum. Steve is a good guy. Live with it.

[Desdemona]

Cool it. There's a lot of water under the bridge.

Codie's alright. From time to time we get blow ups when we're trying to have a decent conversation and the thread gets invaded.