CATECHISM CC - Part 3 - MAN'S RESPONSE TO GOD

SC Borromeo ^

[NYer]

To obey (from the Latin ob-audire, to "hear or listen to") in faith is to submit freely to the word that has been heard, because its truth is guaranteed by God, who is Truth itself.

[NYer]

"Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation.42 "

[NYer]

""Believing is an act of the intellect assenting to the divine truth by command of the will moved by God through grace."27 "

[NYer]

Faith is a gift of God, a supernatural virtue infused by him.

Here is the catechism's response to the question: What is faith?

[Desdemona]

BUMP

[drstevej]

*** The Virgin Mary is its most perfect embodiment.***

Does this mean...

[1] Mary is the perfect embodiment...
[2] Mary is the most nearly perfect embodiment...

Fuzzy language here.

[drstevej]

Westminster Confession of Faith
CHAPTER XIV.
Of Saving Faith.


I. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts; and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word: by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.

II. By this faith, a Christian believeth to be true whatesoever is revealed in the Word, for the authority of god himself speaking therein; and acteth differently, upon that which each particular passage thereof containeth; yielding obedience to the commands, trembling at the threatenings, and embracing the promises of God for this life, and that which is to come. But the principle acts of saving faith are, accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.

III. This faith is different in degrees, weak or strong; may be often and many ways assailed and weakened, but gets the victory; growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance through Christ, who is both the author and finisher of our faith.

[Desdemona]

One section down it is fleshed out. Mary is the perfect embodiment of faith.

[Desdemona]

Mary, Mother of Sorrows:
The Mystery of Comfort and Hope
Louis J. Cameli, abridged

Iuxta crucem tecum stare
ac me tibi sociare
in planctu desidero.

Fac ut portem Christi mortem
passionis fac me sortem
et plagas recolere.

I want to stand with
you next to the cross
and I want to join you in your grieving.

Make me bear Christ's death
make me share his passion
make me recall his wounds.

---

Image:
Crucifixion (fragment)
Church at Walburg
Lower Rhine

---

Ten or twenty years ago, it would have been unthinkable or, at least, improbable, to consider writing about Mary as the mother of sorrows. Devotion to Mary under that title and in Roman Catholic circles had its heyday in the 40s and 50s. Time has passed and given us larger perspectives. The flood of peppy and overly optimistic postconciliar spiritualities failed to satisfy people, precisely because they did not and could not engage people on the level of suffering.

There is a vast quantity of suffering in the world. It extends from deeply personal and hidden domains through social patterns and global realities. It even reaches a cosmic dimension. These abstract levels of suffering are marked out very specifically by sorrowing mothers. In some particular and powerful way a large quantity of human suffering coalesces in the hearts of mothers. In this context, the early and, in the Christian tradition, paradigmatic figure of Mary, mother of sorrows, is worth pursuing for greater understanding.

Even before a theology of suffering was elaborated, the images of a young and suffering mother bearing a child in a hostile world and an older mother standing before the cross of her son as he was dying captivated generations of believers. The embodiment in art and poetry and music of the Mater dolorosa suggests that priority needs to be given to the primary experience which is both imaginative and affective.

An example of giving priority to the imaginative is found in the remarkable medieval hymn Stabat Mater (verses above). When these and other similar verses are read in a perspective of male-female dynamics and spirituality, some significant conclusions emerge. The poet, a man, is asking a woman, Mary, to help him to identify with, join with, participate in the sufferings and death of another man, Jesus.

Read in this way, the Stabat Mater highlights the need or, perhaps more accurately, the necessity of Mary in the spiritual journey. Gerald May says, "...in my experience I have never met a sincere Western spiritual seeker who did not have to encounter Mary at some point along the way, regardless of that seeker's religious denomination. The image of Mary allows both men and women to relate their images of the divine in ways simply not possible with a totally male divinity"

The StabatMater, I suggest, captures a way in which Mary gives access to all believers to the mystery of Jesus Christ. In a particular way, she provides male believers with a possibility for intimate relationship with the suffering and dying Jesus, that is, on the level of his vulnerabilities and our vulnerabilities as well as on the level of strong affect or feeling.

---

Image:
Man of Sorrows
Geertgen tot Sint Jans

---

Although admiration and veneration are both historically and theologically valid and appropriate, another dimension of Marian devotion, recently recovered and reemphasized by Paul VI in Marialis Cultus, needs our attention. The other dimension is identification with Mary or the imitation of Mary. Identification with Mary means that Christians see her and say not only "Look, there is the mother of sorrows," and admire her; they also say, "Here is a life and faith pattern which I can call my own."

If we are to trace the biblical witness to Mary's sufferings, her experience of sorrow, a fundamental distinction is necessary. We are following the experience of someone whose title is sorrowful mother, not depressed mother. In the gospels as documents of faith, we have Mary's experience of suffering presented in a context of faith, hope, and love. Were the gospels to chronicle her pain simply in a context of sadness, perhaps anger, a lack of resolution, and ultimately without perceived hope, then she would not emerge as a pained, sorrowing, yet faith-filled person but rather as a depressed person.

The sufferings endured by Mary were complex. As we noted, the gospel narratives often mix a joy and a sorrow. Their layered descriptions ring true to the texture of real life. In a similar way, one would expect and correctly find a complexity in the responses of Mary to suffering. Although we instinctively look for a single solution to "the problem of suffering," faith and, more specifically, the Mary experience in the New Testament lead us to a multifaceted approach. I will describe her responses under the categories of struggle, presence, expansion, and surrender.

(Gerald G. May, win and Spirit: A Contemplative Psychology, pp. 147-8).

1) STRUGGLE – Mary's first response to suffering is struggle. Because of an excessively passive piety in the past, we may be surprised that struggle can be named the first response to suffering. Mary's "yes" is not mere acquiescence but active engagement in the unfolding of salvation. Mary's response to suffering by way of struggle becomes clear in the Magnificat. Here we find suffering, struggle, hope, courage and anticipation.

2) PRESENCE – As she shares in the sufferings of her son, Mary accompanies him, does not "do" anything. Hers is an active and engaged presence which includes: knowing, understanding, accepting and loving. When "nothing can be done" medically, socially, psycho-therapeutically, or whatever way, then the core needs of people emerge. They are: being known, being understood, being accepted, being loved. These elements form the content of Mary's presence.

3) EXPANSION – A significant response of Mary to suffering is an expansion of consciousness and of concern. The gospel narratives are quite clear about this. At the cross, in John's gospel, she faces the greatest loss. Precisely at that moment, she expands her embrace and receives the beloved disciple and, symbolically, all other disciples as their mother. In the face of her most intense suffering, she expands the arena of her concern.

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Image:
Pieta
detailof the Marian altar in the
Lady Chapel, Frankfurt, Germany

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4) SURRENDER – Mary's surrender is a surrender to God. Psychologically, that means not clinging to her control over matters or outcomes. In faith, it means the radical acknowledgment of God's sovereignty. In hope, it means re-imagining the future, not simply making the future an extrapolation of the present. In love, it means the movement toward the union of wills with the one who loves us absolutely, unconditionally.

The mystery of suffering is a mystery of connection and disconnection. The overall pattern of Mary emergent in our reflection is to link us with Jesus in his suffering and dying and rising, to link us with one another as we share common struggles and suffering, to link us with a larger world of concern. Mary comforts primarily by being a sacrament of God's compassion, enduring, promising, supporting.

How can Mary be the sorrowful mother if she has been gloriously assumed into heaven? Recall the image of the appearing risen Lord who continues to bear the wounds of his passion. He is glorified and wounded still. For the mystery is one: death and resurrection. Similarly, Mary is both virgo assumpta and mater dolorosa . Her sufferings and sorrows have shaped her glory. She is "a sign of sure hope and solace for the pilgrim people of God."


Source: Louis J. Cameli, abridged from the article with same title which appeared in Chicago Studies, 27, 1: April, 1988, pp. 3;15. This excerpt appeared in The Marian Library Newsletter, Spring, 1991.

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[NYer]

Fuzzy language here.

The Virgin Mary most perfectly embodies the obedience of faith.

Nothing fuzzy about that.

[drstevej]

***One section down it is fleshed out. Mary is the perfect embodiment of faith.***

I realize this is the RC position. However, this is still fuzzy language.

Why not simply declare her to be the perfect embodiment? "Most perfect" is in itself contradictory and sloppy language.

How do we know Mary was the perfect embodiment of faith? There is no biblical basis for this claim. We only see glimpses of her in the New Testament. In what we see there is genuine consistency. To claim she is perfect in this matter is extrapolation / speculation.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Mary is the perfect embodiment of faith.

I agree:)

NYER said in an earlier post to answer the question What is faith that faith was a gift from God. IMO, that was not really a complete answer. I would say faith is taking God at His word and ACTING upon it, Which Mary did.

Her response was "according to His will." She accepted Him as her savior. She endured alot but retained her trust of Him, that is faith. Becky

[drstevej]

***Nothing fuzzy about that.***

Of course there is. Perfect / Perfectly admits to no degrees. Anything less is imperfect.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

I would say she is a/the perfect embodiment of faith. But I would not say she is the most/only perfect emodiment of faith. There were others who by faith accepted God's will in their lives.

This is where the Catholics and I would part company:) According to what is written in scripture it appears that Mary always accepted what came her way and endured by faith. That does not mean though that I believe her to be sinless. That is why I believe her faith WAS perfect, by faith she accepted the Lord as her Savior. Luke 1:47.

Becky

[Desdemona]

Why not simply declare her to be the perfect embodiment? "Most perfect" is in itself contradictory and sloppy language.

It means she is the most perfect. More than any other. Are you being deliberatly obtuse. It's very simple. In this case "most" is a modifier (I ACED grammar).

How do we know Mary was the perfect embodiment of faith?

Because she proved it in what she did. And TRADITION tells us this.

There is no biblical basis for this claim.

Hence the problem for you. The bible, for us, is one document - granted the most important - but not the sole source of authority. Marian traditions, this one included, pre-date the closure of the canon.

We only see glimpses of her in the New Testament. In what we see there is genuine consistency. To claim she is perfect in this matter is extrapolation / speculation.

She is a faily well developed person in the bible. For the basis of the most perfect embodiment of faith, see the beginning of Luke, the wedding at Cana, all four Passions and Acts, among others.

[Desdemona]

Mary had no doubts. That's what separates her.

[drstevej]

The phrase "embodiment of faith" implies faith not just at the times specifically recorded but ongoing, continual perfection of faith. (And this is consistent with RC dogma.)

It is the extrapolation / speculation which I reject

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

Do you think she is the only one who never doubted?

Becky

[Desdemona]

Do you think she is the only one who never doubted?

Maybe not, but she is the only one God, through the Archangel Gabriel, asked to be the mother of His son. THAT says more than anything else. And in this case, too much tradition is there to ignore it.

[drstevej]

***It means she is the most perfect. More than any other. Are you being deliberatly obtuse. It's very simple. In this case "most" is a modifier (I ACED grammar).***

You have the syntax correct, but it is not an issue of grammar. I am not trying to be obtuse. If the meaning is "more than an other" the phrase "most nearly perfect" avoids any confusion. Enough said. You are free to disagree.

***(drsj)There is no biblical basis for this claim. (desdemona) Hence the problem for you.***

You are admitting that there is no biblical basis for the conclusion and that you have to look elsewhere to support the claim.

***She is a faily well developed person in the bible.***

Joseph of the Old Testament is a far better developed character (i.e. there is far more information given about him). There is far more in Scripture about Paul than Mary. Compared to these two (and I could have chosen many others) we have only a few "points on the curve" of her life.