Closing with Christ

Christian Communicators Worldwide ^ | 1999 | Jim Eliff

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

One of the biggest obstacles presented by many churches and evangelists is the "conversion experience." (Some of the more charismatic churches would go so far as to say that if you haven't spoken in tongues, then you aren't saved.) In my opinion, modern Christendom places more emphasis on esoteric experience than a sound biblical presentation of the gospel.

i am reminded of the passage in Acts where the Spirit leads Phillip to the chariot of the Ethiopian eunuch. The Spirit moved Phillip to answer the sincere questions that the eunuch had. The result was a baptised convert. Notice that there was no "external signs" involved in the "conversion experience", the scriptures record simply that the eunuch went on his way rejoicing.

If there be a difficulty in the way that our churches and it's outreach ministries are presenting Christ, it is in the three general injunctions given to us in respect to scripture:

1) Add nothing to scripture;
2) Take nothing away from the scriptures;
3) Do not go beyond what is written;

The scriptures do record conversion experiences, some rather dramatic. They do not tell us that these experiences will always be the way that God works on an individual.

[sheltonmac]

You are absolutely correct in assuming that you were inviting people to Christ every time you preached. That's the nature of the gospel. If you present the truth, then the truth should speak for itself. It doesn't require getting someone's body to move based on some emotional response.

I wonder if some evangelists and pastors use altar calls for their own benefit--to see the fruits of their labor, as it were. I know that's probably not the motivation of the majority, but I'm sure it happens.

[Boxsford]

good afternoon RnMomof7! Thanks for the ping over here. It's refreshing to talk about the things of the Lord and not get bashed. This thread must be cut off from the rest of the FR world. :)

[sheltonmac]

It's a comfort to know that we can always rely on the infallible Word of God! Why some people insist on trying to add their worthless two cents to it is beyond me.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Especially since their worthless two pennies are made of dross anyway! Great thread. You will have FReepmail in about a minute.

[BibChr]

Absolutely right. I would always make clear that it wasn't their legs that needed moving, it was their hearts!

I'm sure you're right, on both counts. I'm sure that, to most, this is how they labor to be used by God to bring people to the (very Biblical) realities of conversion, saving faith, and union with Christ. But I'm equally sure that others revel in the crowds; and that partially accounts for the long, drawn-out, manipulative invitations with which I have sometimes seen fellows shame Christ.

Now, what do you think about his implication that converts virtually go through a catechism class before they're baptized, or granted access to the Lord's Supper? I lean his way, but on the other hand, I just don't SEE that explicitly in the NT. Acts 2 certainly paints the portrait of a sermon, an "invitation," a response, and a massive baptismal service immediately following. That pattern is repeated. Certainly no idea of the weeks, months, years and even decades that often separate conversion from baptism today. Or again, Communion. It celebrates our union with Christ, and His death for us. When did that happen? At conversion. How long should we force people to wait?

Asking that they undergo baptism, to attest to conversion, makes Biblical sense to me. But as I just suggested, I don't know if I'm Biblically warranted to put a lot of requirements on the former. As I read in the Bible, there just will be phonies, until the Lord comes back. I can't prevent it. I can do all I'm worth not to give false comfort, but even the Puritans had that "judgment of Christian charity" on others' profession of faith.

I axe you.

Dan
(c8

[sheltonmac]

I don't know. I guess there really isn't a right or wrong answer to these things, but I think that when it comes to the Lord's Supper (and baptism, for that matter) there should at least be the ability to examine one's own heart. I know that we are called to examine ourselves before taking part in the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:28), and baptisms recorded in scripture typically show that people simply "believed and were baptized."

[irishtenor]

I agree. Communion is for remembering what Christ has done for you. Don't take communion unless you are a Christian.

[winstonchurchill]

A 6th bullet on your list should read: Must instantly stop smoking or drinking, etc. to prove you are a Christian. It makes the previous 5 bullets, works. Sadly there is no understanding of grace and mercy.

And, of course, we must make sure that the Spirit must do absolutely nothing to transform the new believer. After all, it might make some of the others who have been sitting there all these years 'feel' badly about themselves.

How silly! Of course, the Holy Spirit is going to make changes in the life of the new believer -- some right away, some over time. It may be smoking, or drinking or sex or theft or whatever the sin de jour is. But the Good News is not just some legal transaction ("Call for an appointment"). Christ offers Life and that more abundantly. Necessarily, that sometimes instantaneously crowds out sin. And, aren't we glad it does?

[winstonchurchill]

I don't disagree with any of the approaches the article mentions. To me, it is silly to debate whether those wishing to accept Christ should go forward or stay in their seats. (Although 'call for an appointment' does seem a bit cavalier for the most important decision one can make.)

As Paul said, "I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." We should use all means to save some.

Some will be put off by an invitation hymn and an altar call. Others will be put off by the lack of one. I agree with the author that the Scriptures do not enjoin one, neither however, do they forbid one. This is the old "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos" partisanship.

[narses]

An interesting read for a Catholic kid. Comments?

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

While not offering an altar call, the pastors at my church will take a moment just before communion to invite people to accept Christ and partake of the elements along with other believers. This has always seemed odd to me, since I had grown up believing that communion was something for relatively "mature" Christians. Thoughts or comments?

I think it's absolutely appropriate to administer Communion to new Believers. The Sacrament is a Means of Grace (even if we lay aside the Presbyterian doctrine of "Spiritual Presence", and we take a strictly Baptistic view that Communion is observance of a Symbolic Ordinance -- it is still one of God's means of imparting Grace to a believers spirit for a believer to obey the Lord's ordinances!!).

Provided that they examine themselves to confess known Sins, and are submitted to their Elders -- Why should we deny participation in the receipt of sacramental, sanctifying Grace to those who (arguably) need it most, New Believers?

(Not that any of us can do without)

Of course, I should admit in the spirit of Full Disclosure that I'm nearly a Paedo-Communionist myself -- I don't believe in Communing the Infants as some paedocommunionists do, but I don't believe in withholding the Sacrament until the adolescent years, either. In the absence of any Biblical case law on the matter of which I am aware, I advocate the continuance of the Hebrew custom for the Passover Seder -- administering the Supper to covenant Children as soon as they are old enough to explain the meaning of the sacrament to their Elders.

JMHO, as always.

best op

[Corin Stormhands]

Some will be put off by an invitation hymn and an altar call. Others will be put off by the lack of one. I agree with the author that the Scriptures do not enjoin one, neither however, do they forbid one. This is the old "I am of Paul, I am of Apollos" partisanship.

Doesn't it boil down to the fact that it doesn't matter how they come, as long as the come?

I am quite sure that many altar rail conversions are pure emotion with no real commitment. Likewise, I would think that many appointments in the Pastor's office would lead to a "commitment" if for no other reason than to end the appointment.

[RnMomof7]

I am quite sure that many altar rail conversions are pure emotion with no real commitment. Likewise, I would think that many appointments in the Pastor's office would lead to a "commitment" if for no other reason than to end the appointment.

I would suspect an "office" conversion to be more likely real than one at the altar rail..at least there is time for one on one prayer and some teaching .

But either way God is God of that moment

[ponyespresso]

The typical "sinner's prayer" as evangelicals have come to express it, has three elements: (1) a mere acknowledgment of sin, which is not the same as repentance, (2) a belief in the act of Christ's death, which is far removed from trust in his person and work, and, (3) an "inviting Christ into the life." The last phrase hangs on nothing biblical (though John 1: 12 and Rev. 3: 20 are used, out of context, for its basis). It is considered, nonetheless, to be the pivotal and necessary instrument for becoming a true Christian. But God commands us to repentingly believe, not to invite Christ into the life.

I have a problem with this one point, that this guy is complaining about ONLY believing in Christ's death, and not trusting in His person and work. Excuse me, but wasn't Jesus' work exactly that; his death? The cross of Christ is the centeral tentant of our faith, the great central divine act which brings men to salvation. Romans 10:9 does not say that if we confess with our mouths that Jesus is Lord and believe in our hearts that He was a great teacher and healed a lot of people we will be saved. We confess belief in His death and resurrection.

While I to have a few concerns about the "Sinners Prayer" as such, it seems necessary, to me at least, that confession of belief in the cruxifiction, death and resurrection of Jesus, far above any good teaching or healing He did in life, is a crucial aspect to conversion.

But, that could just be me. I might be wrong.

[Boxsford]

A most excellent response. I agree with you most heartily.

[2timothy3.16]

this article does make some excellent points

Yes it does.