What's Inside the Trojan Horse? (John MacArthur)

Oneplace.com ^ | March 16, 2003 | John MacArthur

[ksen]

Neither!

Contrarian....

[ksen]

Neither!

Ok, you're not saved because you believe. Does that mean you would argue that you believe because you are saved?

[ksen]

I am not sure let me chew on that.

Let me know what you come up with.

[Corin Stormhands]

Where/what is "Saddleback?"

Is it "Willow Creekish?"

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Saddleback is in California with the rest of the "fruits and nuts". It is a Southern Baptist Congregation (although they do not advertise that), pastored by Rick Warren. Yes it is a mega church as is Willow Creek. Rick Warren is the author of The Purpose Driven Church.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Saddleback is in Lake Forest, Orange County, and has a membership of over 15,000. Cozy.

fruits and nuts

But remember Lloyd Ogilvie also comes from California; he recently retired as U.S. Senate Chaplain and was the 23-year pastor of the First Presbyterian of Hollywood.

[Corin Stormhands]

Thanks. Wife and I visited Willow Creek a number of years ago...**shudder**

(and I say that being a member of a pentecostal mega-church)

[RnMomof7]

I have considered the question..and here is my answer.

No one can not be saved without a basic understanding of the trinity.

One must know who Jesus is to be saved.  

  Mat 16:15   He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?      Mat 16:16   And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.   

  Mat 16:17   And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven

All "Christs" are not equal and all do not save, Having faith in a false Jesus profits nothing  

  Mar 13:21   And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here [is] Christ; or, lo, [he is] there; believe [him] not:   

  Mar 13:22   For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.

If the bible is true..Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God ...  

Kevin we can not have a perfect understanding of the trinity in this life..but we can know what scripture reveals throught the inspiration of the Holy Spirit . If it were not so the JW's and the Mormons would be saved by their jesus's and we could remove from the bible all the texts that refer to sound doctrine

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

i'm sorry, i missed this post in the confusion on another thread.

As for Megachurches, I'm not so sure. MacArthur's church qualifies, don't you think? For that matter, so did the NT church in Jerusalem.

Aside from the daily temple service, i doubt that all of the members of the Jerusalem church gathered in the same place at the same time unless it was out doors. Simple matter of logistics that, where else in Jerusalem are at least 3,120 members going to gather? It is hard enough here in America in most church buildings.

While i do believe that the large congregation is going to pass away, i have nothing against large congregations! In my denomination, Fourth Presbyterian (EPC), Bethesda, MD has over 3,000, perhaps close to 4,000 members, but it is neither a Willow Creek nor a Saddleback! As long as the congregation is carrying out the mandates of the church, more power to it.

i didn't know about Stott, that is a new one for me.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

And I'll bet (or ask Bill Bennett to put down $20 for me) that there were no Hawaiian shirts in the Jerusalem church.

[FactQuest]

3120 Christians in Jerusalem... indeed, where could they meet? I suspect they could still meet in the temple, perhaps in the Court of the Gentiles. Or, outside... I hadn't really thought about that much, but it is interesting. I guess its likely they broke into smaller groups and met in various homes, right?

As for Stott, he grounds his belief solidly in the Bible. It's an interpretation issue, I don't think he first thought it unlikely that a loving God would punish sinners in Hell... I think he started with the scriptures, and let them reveal... yet came to a different conclusion. Our pastor brought him up once several months ago. So, I naturally had to do a mini-review of the issue myself. As one who is always ready to question traditional interpretations, I ended up being able to see both sides, and have ended up not knowing for sure. I throw this issue into my bucket of "disputable differences." Here is a pretty decent site, if you are interested in annihilationism.

http://www.biblicalanswers.net/annihilat.html