WHEN THE POPE KISSED THE KORAN

TCR News ^ | Stephen Hand

[RnMomof7]

If all, are already condemned why tell people to DO works??? And why bother looking in the book, if no names are going to be there since all are condemned

We do "good" works because we are saved..not to be saved. They are the fruit produced by His grace. They are HIS works in us ,not ours by our design , and He is pleased with HIS works

Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

The Judgenment at the end will be a judgement of rewards..the tares will already be burned..ET when you die and go to heaven and God asks why you should be given admittance what will you say?

ACTIONS-DEEDS-WORKS-BEHAVIOR

GRACE FAITH BELIEF FRUIT

[RnMomof7]

Not one passage in the NT dealing with the Final Judgment even remotely suggests that men are judged by whether they explicitly acknowledge Jesus as Lord. Not one.

Why send missionaries? Why attempt to convert them

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Act 4:12   Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

1Jo 5:11   And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

     1Jo 2:23   Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Jhn 3:36   He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Jhn 11:25   Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

1Cr 3:11   For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

[eastsider]

LOL! : )

I appreciate the point that we're called to express our (agape) love constantly in thought, word and deed, and that the Book of Life is not an accounting ledger.

My only point is that God has mercy on those who are merciful, even if they call Him Allah.

[Quester]

I appreciate the point that we're called to express our (agape) love constantly in thought, word and deed, and that the Book of Life is not an accounting ledger.

My only point is that God has mercy on those who are merciful, even if they call Him Allah.

Every morning when we awake from sleep, we partake of God's mercy ... for some others did not awaken.

In this sense, God bestows general mercies upon all the world each and every day.

That God even gives us the opportunity to know Him is a mercy extended to us.

That God responds with mercy to the demonstration of human kindness is evident in our world today ... but this does not necessarily extend so as to require God to show ultimate mercy when He sits in final judgement.

That He has provided us with all we need to avoid final condemnation is mercy above and beyond anything we else we will see in this life.

For us to receive this final installment of His mercy, God requires that we come to know and love Him ... as He is. To persist in mis-identifying God (not only in Name, but as to His attributes, as well) is equivalent to calling out another's name in the midst of intimate relations with one's spouse.

[eastsider]

Why send missionaries? Why attempt to convert them?

To my of thinking, teaching by example and missionary work are not mutually exclusive.

[eastsider]

For us to receive this final installment of His mercy, God requires that we come to know and love Him ... as He is.

You mean, as a man? : )

[RnMomof7]

So a heathan missionary is just as good as a Chrisitan one?

[Quester]

For us to receive this final installment of His mercy, God requires that we come to know and love Him ... as He is.

You mean, as a man?

I am not sure that I am following your line of thinking here ...

[Codie]

What's a heathan religion? In your humble opinion of course?

[ET(end tyranny)]

I think we are looking at it from different perspectives. I see it as good works shows your faith. You see it as faith will bring forth good works. The only problem with that is that faith may not necessarily bring forth good works. The death faith that James speaks of.

Bad works will not show faith. While Good works will. Good works will automatically show your faith. Meanwhile faith isn't always supported with good works.

[eastsider]

IMO, if a heathen acts with love and mercy toward his neighbor, it can only be by the same grace by which a Christian acts with love and mercy. So, yes, I do believe a heathen's acts of love and mercy are the equivalent of a Christian's acts of love and mercy. Neither has buried the talent (grace) God has given him; rather, each has appreciated it.

[ET(end tyranny)]

No offense but your quotes from Ephesians are from Paul. James is in charge of the Jerusalem Community after the crucifixion, so I give his words more credibility than Paul's when the two disagree on something. So, when Paul keeps saying that works are nothing and James says, Oh vain man, faith without works are dead.

Same thing goes for where Paul says that the law is dead. Jesus tells us otherwise. And so does James. Again, since James is in charge after the crucifixtion, I'll take his word over Paul's, especially Jesus tells us that the law will be in effect until the heavens and the earth pass away.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Isaiah takes a swipe at them too, I think.

Interesting things in Obadiah:

7 All the men of thy confederacy have brought thee even to the border: the men that were at peace with thee have deceived thee, and prevailed against thee; they that eat thy bread have laid a wound under thee: there is none understanding in him.

I think this might mean (confederacy.. is there a group of Arab nations, some type of formal name? I think there is, I just can't think of it right now) but this group that supposedly stands together may sell them out)

10 For thy violence against thy brother Jacob shame shall cover thee, and thou shalt be cut off for ever.

I think this goes back to when Esau wanted food and traded his birthright for food. Later he was resentful over this, even though it was his own fault. Responsibility for his actions. Revenge for Jacob having the birthright that Esau trade away.

[eastsider]

I am not sure that I am following your line of thinking here ...

I mean that if "God requires that we come to know and love Him ... as He is," and God is a man (by which I mean a divine person with a human nature), then by loving our fellow man, we are loving God ... as He is ... whether we realize it or not. To me, it's just one of those mysteries of the Incarnation that we can contemplate but never comprehend.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Matthew 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Gee, I thought someone posted that Paul said to forget about works lest any man boast. What's up with Jesus telling us to let others see our good works????

John 10:38
But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

This one makes it look like works come before faith and that works are more important. Though you believe not me... BELIEVE THE WORKS.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

You'll notice here that he keeps negating the 'works of the law'. Why is he over riding God's Commandments? Paul also calls the law a curse. Jesus didn't. Jesus encouraged people to keep the commandments for salvation.

Matthew 19
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Luke 10: 25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

So, here we have Jesus telling us what is required for eternal life. Keeping the law, following the commandments. Works, actions, behavior.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Your #195 is a wonderful synopsis!

[ET(end tyranny)]

You show your love of God by how you love your neighbor.

[ET(end tyranny)]

... any more than I can say to my wife ... "Hey, I bought you a birthday present last year ... isn't that enough ?"

That's why your expected to live your life following the commandments, doing good works every day, not just once, to live your life, emulating Jesus (as best you humanly can). Jesus lived a life of service to others.

[ET(end tyranny)]

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

He has juded us already and we have been found wanting..That is why we need a savior

That is why Jesus came. To SHOW us, through his life, how to live our lives. He showed us THE WAY.

What does Jesus mean when he says, I am the way?

the way <3598>
Lexicon Greek 3598

3598 hodos {hod-os'} apparently a root word; TDNT - 5:42,666; n f AV - way 83, way side 8, journey 6, highway 3, misc 2; 102

1) properly
1a) a way
1a1) a traveled way, road
1b) a travelers way, journey, traveling
2) metaph.
2a) a course of conduct
2b) a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding

DECIDING.... CHOICES.
COURSE OF CONDUCT.... BEHAVIOR, WORKS, DEEDS, ACTIONS.

[Quester]

Interestingly, both men ... Paul and James, ... are quoting Moses here.

What Moses said follows ...

Abraham believed God (faith) and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

I'll hang with Moses ... and Paul ... since he agrees with Moses.