Bond between members of Body of Christ supernatural reality Abp. Chaput no kneeling or genuflecting

Archiocese of Denver Register (website) ^ | February, 2003 | Archbishop Charles J. Chaput

[american colleen]

Here's my problem. We are obedient to our bishops, that is a given. This particular bishop, who I think I like very much (having twice read his book "Living the Catholic Faith")is telling us (the way I read it) not to genuflect or kneel when receiving the Body of Christ. We are to incline our heads in a bow. I realize that these are all human gestures that do not reflect our internal disposition and as such they can mean very little. But I cry inwardly in sorrow that I must stand and incline my head as my only grateful gesture towards our Lord when in reality, I do want to kneel and/or genuflect to him as I would do if he were visible to human eyes on that altar. In fact, I would probably bury my face. Anyhow, it disturbs me when a conservative bishop directs us to physically rever Jesus Christ our Saviour in a less reverential way than Queen Elizabeth II is greeted. In fact, I do not believe that the way we greet "royalty" has changed over the centuries - why has the way we thank our Lord changed?

Am I getting all riled up over a minor point?

[american colleen]

Comments very welcome and appreciated.

[WriteOn]

Too bad they trashed the communion rails. No opportunity for do-it-yourself gestures there, much, either. I imagine that from some pastoral perspectives the quick genuflection before stepping up to receive the Eucharist is distracting, or self-serving. Dunno. I wonder what they do elsewhere?

We have a communion rail and use it at Old St. Mary's.

[SoothingDave]

Am I getting all riled up over a minor point?

It's not exactly a minor point, and God knows we could use more reverance, not less to the Blessed Sacrament.

But it is a duly authorized rubric, approved by Rome. If we do not follow the rubrics, what basis do we have to criticise others who frelance their way through the liturgy?

That being said, let us make sure that this bishop and the others who are not so good, devote as much attention to the others rubrics being violated constantly.

SD

[Gophack]

That being said, let us make sure that this bishop and the others who are not so good, devote as much attention to the others rubrics being violated constantly.

I agree with this. I believe the rule is that communion can be received kneeling, but the Bishops in union with Rome request a deep bow as the norm. The proper postures were distributed by the Bishop to all in the Sacramento Diocese, and it highlighted the deep bow. Virtually no one bowed or kneeled at our parish, now about a third of the people bow and it's getting better all the time.

I would never deny anyone the right to bow if they want; sometimes it's a safety issue. I remember communion rails as a child -- it was how I received my first Holy Communion. But there are many rubics that AREN'T being followed at all, and those we should focus on.

God bless.

[Loyalist]

If we do not follow the rubrics, what basis do we have to criticise others who frelance their way through the liturgy?

For it is written: As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me and every tongue shall confess to God. Romans 14:11

What the Lord has commanded, no cleric--not even the Pope--can countermand.

[Notwithstanding]

The Vatican has tacitly acknowledged the awkwardness of the US bishops' out-of-the-blue determination that kneeling or genuflecting is bad - as well as the licitness of genuflecting or kneeling - by sending out official word that no one is to be refused communion or publicly corrected or admonished or catehcized in any public way for kneeling or genuflecting to recieve the eucharist.

In fact, the official word fromt eh Vatican is that a private attempt to persuade through one-on-one catechesis is the only licit way a US priest or bishop can try to promote "unity" in posture. In fact, the official word is that any attempt to do otherwise will result in disciplinary action against the priest or bishop.

[Notwithstanding]

Here is the real official deal from the USCCB website:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/804489/posts

[Notwithstanding]

Sorry, the link was to the text from the official Vatican office of worship posted on the Adoremus website. The USCCB acknolwedgement that it will comply with the Vatican is at the link below:

http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/092002.htm

[Notwithstanding]

Another official USCCB link that confirms that NO ONE MAY BE REFUSED COMMUNION because they are kneeling and the PRIVATE CATECHESIS is the proper response of the priest/bishop when they ae disturbed by such reverence.

http://www.usccb.org/liturgy/innews/072002.htm

[american colleen]

It seems the problem is that the rubrics were too vague in the beginning, IMO.

I'm just shocked that Abshp. Chaput is one of the bishops to direct the little head bow thing is the way to go.

That said, we are to obey the bishops in these matters. But all in all, I find it sad that we show more physical respect to an earthly monarch than we do to our heavenly monarch.

[american colleen]

Thanks, but you kinda lost me with your post! I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

[american colleen]

Agree with the trashing of the communion rails. Whaddya wanna bet that most of the laity disagreed with that? But no one asked, "they" just went ahead and did it anyway, in the "spirit of Vatican 11." So what did it leave us? Mass confusion and wasted time and paper on how to receive the Body of Christ. Pitiful.

I dunno, but the whole thing seems to be the result of trying to bring heaven closer to us rather than us closer to heaven. Or make Jesus Christ a friendly, loving God that we will just shake hands with on the day of reckoning.

[Notwithstanding]

Exactly - the custom has never changed "organically" (the only way such customs are supposed to).

[viola]

Yo!
Maybe I'm just young and nieve but I have to say I would crawl on my hands and knees to recieve Jesus Christ. I think it's kinda missing the whole point to nit pick on how we recieve Him, rather than the increadible miracle that we CAN recieve Him every day! I read articles about how bad it is for loyal underground Catholics in China to practice their faith and to even recieve the Eucharist. It is so precious to them. I doubt they are concerned over whether they sit, kneel, bow, etc..just as long as they can. Maybe we could take a hint?

[St.Chuck]

"The church now asks us to submit our personal preference to her wisdom."

I like that line. My personal preference can be satisfied at the indult.

[american colleen]

Posture
It should be noted that the General Instruction o the Roman Missal assigns to Conferences of Bishops the decision as to whether the faithful should stand or kneel at the time of reception of Holy Communion. (no. 43 §2) The Bishops of the United States have decided that the normative posture for receiving Holy Communion should be standing.

Kneeling is not a licit posture for receiving Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States of America unless the bishop of a particular diocese has derogated from this norm in an individual and extraordinary circumstance.

The provision which follows this section is provided for those extraordinary circumstances when a communicant acts in contradiction to the decision of the bishops. Under no circumstances may a person be denied Holy Communion merely because he or she has refused to stand to receive Holy Communion. Rather, in such instances, the priest is obliged to provide additional catechesis so that the communicant might better understand the reason for the Bishops' decision to choose standing as the normative posture for receiving Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States of America. --------------------------------------------------------------------------

ANOTHER reason the USCCB is a hall of mirrors and should be disbanded. They spend more time on the idea of physical unity than they do on the critical issue of addressing mental unity and the promotion of orthodoxy. Look at how most of 'em caved on the mandatum for theologians in Catholic colleges. It seems that even if a bishop of a particular diocese wishes to make kneeling a licit posture for receiving the Eucharist, he is prohibited from doing so unless it is an extraordinary circumstance in an individual situation.

I still am out of sorts that if I was presented to Queen Elizabeth I would curtsy to her, but I cannot kneel to receive the Body of Christ unless it is an extraordinary situation.

I guess I'm still a little bent out of shape after reading that letter by Fr. Joseph F. Wilson the other day.

[american colleen]

Yo! Yourself! ;-)

I don't disagree with you, really. But then why, given your premise, change the way things have been done for hundreds of years. It's not like it didn't work right. Would that the bishops spent as much time weeding out the abusing priests over the years as they have in changing stuff like posture and words and statues and altar kneelers and moving tabernacles and taking down crucifixes.... ya know what I mean?

I remember being a kid in the early 70s... one Sunday you'd go to Mass and kneel and receive Communion and the next Sunday it would be different and then the next year the kneelers were gone, one Sunday there was the organ and all the beautiful traditional Catholic music and then the next Sunday you'd go to Mass and have a guitar and Kumbaya stuff... it was really confusing!

I like change, but not just for the sake of change.

[RobbyS]

When the iconaclasts are in charge.