Posted on 11/06/2002 1:47:26 PM PST by drstevej
How does one define a "true" interest in the things of the Lord? There are many who spend their lives searching. Are you saying they are all elect?
SD
Its their way of saying "I'm" sure "I'm" one of the elect that God had chosen, but you on the other hand....
BigMack
...are dunghills covered with snow.
(sorry, I love that phrase and just had to use it somewhere today!)
Why so confident?
Well, cause with God all thigns are possible, right? I know what needs to happen in order to acheive salvation. All I need to do is to persevere, with God's grace to allow me to do just that.
Especially in view of the preposition "with" the grace of God. God's grace + your free will = no assurrance. Isn't that the RC formulation?
No, I don't think so. If I choose to ignore God's grace, I can be assured that He will disavow knowing me. If I choose to cooperate with God's grace, then I know that I will acheive salvation.
SD
Shouldn't you say, I may get there."
***If I choose to cooperate with God's grace, then I know that I will acheive salvation.***
If you make it, you will have something to boast about, then!
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.
"I will" is an expression of intent and determination.
***If I choose to cooperate with God's grace, then I know that I will acheive salvation.***
If you make it, you will have something to boast about, then!
Please. I thought you were above this silly type of arguing?
I threw in a handful of "with the grace of God"'s into my post. Do I need to get pedantic and use them everywhere?
Don't you know any better?
If I say that "I" am doing something, this is with the undersanding that it is actually God working through me.
Do you honestly think, after all I have said that I am some sort of Pelagian?
SD
SD
I'm not sure what you are asking. As far as I can tell, though we are made in his image, we are all "ungodly," meaning that we are not god, we are not divine.
SD
If one is not of the elect, according to Calvinism this cannot happen. ~ BigMack
Let's just suppose for a moment that you hate cheesecake and let's just suppose for a moment that I absolutely love cheesecake. Let's suppose that you absolutely love a big thick mesquite grilled rib eye and let's suppose that I love a good rib eye, but not as much as I love cheesecake. Let's also suppose that by lot (lanchano in the Greek) the cheesecake falls to me and the steak falls to you. You really have no cause to complain about not getting the cheesecake for what right do you have to complain about not getting something which you hate anyway?
Nope. Wrong. Sorry. I know you'd like it to be, but that doesn' make it so.
***If I say that "I" am doing something, this is with the undersanding that it is actually God working through me***
You are also saying you can frustrate the working of God or cooperate with it with the result effecting your eternity.
That's right. We have free will choices. Did Adam and Eve choose to disobey God, or did He make them do it?
You then are ultimately the deciding factor. Thereby, giving you reason to commend yourself.
If I have the pwoer to decide for God, it is only because He gave me the grace to choose Him. There is no reason to commend a person for responding to God's grace.
Call this argument silly if you wish. I consider it highly substantive.
I call jumping on a person's language and going "A Ha!" because of its appearance silly. Instead of trying to get what I am saying, you assume I am Pelagian cause I use the word "I."
That's beneath a serious discussion.
When I say I will make it, it is a fact based upon God's promise and dependability. It is a matter of His intent and His determinatiuon.
And it is based on the fact that you must perform good works, or else your sense of "dependability" is shown to be false.
SD
Calvinism goes into a realm of human philosophy. It is NOT a Bible doctrine, but a system of human philosophy appealing somewhat to the proud mind. Consider first that what we are discussing is called "Calvinism." "It was Calvin who wrought out this system of theological thought with such logical clearness and emphasis that it has ever since borne his name".
How strange that, after 1,400 years of Christianity, practically no one had understood the Bible to teach Calvin's doctrine of predestination until he formed the philosophy! What a strangely hidden doctrine, that New Testament Christians could go for nearly for 1400 years until the days of the reformers, when Calvin developed the doctrine fully.
It is obvious that great groups of Christians have always found salvation by grace in the Bible. The Bible is very clear on that. It is also clear on every other great doctrine.
BigMack
Which is a big, convoluted way of saying God likes them best. Calvin's god knows you need a cheescake to enter heaven, but he won't give you one. And you are supposed to be happy about this, cause this god made you not want cheesecake in the first place.
SD
I'm gonna say #1. Am I right?
God makes the first move, we can not move towards Him until He first moves us.
SD
Mark the date 11/7/02! We agree! :)
Calvinism is a false doctrine.
BigMack
LOL. Not only that, but more astonishing (IMO) you're here using an historical argument. (Saying that Calvinism was invented recently.)
SD
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