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Principles of Literal Bible Interpretation
Bible Truth ^ | Revised, Aug 2001 | Cooper P. Abrams, III

Posted on 10/29/2002 5:18:29 AM PST by xzins

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To: Quester
Noted.
81 posted on 10/29/2002 9:11:25 PM PST by St.Chuck
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To: Quester
All those were condemned who saw Jesus Christ in His humanity but didn't see or believe in spirit His divinity that He was the true Son of God...same now...all those who see the Sacrament of the Body of Christ which is consecrated on the altar in the form of bread and wine by the words of our Lord in the hands of a priest and do not see or believe in spirit and in God that this is really the most holy Body and Blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ...
82 posted on 10/29/2002 9:25:22 PM PST by Irisshlass
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To: Corin Stormhands
get a rile out of the folks that need more fiber in their diets.

Have you ever really listened to how "muesli" sounds? Made me think of chewin' on some 6 year old's winter coatsleeve in the "glisteny" section. Now that's fiber. :>)

83 posted on 10/29/2002 10:08:28 PM PST by xzins
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To: onedoug
Have no idea what you just said. Guess this won't be an above board conversation.
84 posted on 10/29/2002 10:23:03 PM PST by xzins
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To: nate4one
Sorry, Nate. If I ignored you it's only because there's so many hours in a day, and so much time to answer so many people.

You're another of those who believes there's death in the New Heavens and New Earth, right? If I recalled you're "full preterist" or somewhere near that path, correct?
85 posted on 10/29/2002 10:25:59 PM PST by xzins
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To: Irisshlass
That's what I thought you meant, but that is taking that verse out of context. That verse has to do with being steadfast and patient when dealing with trials, the trying of your faith. How will you know how much faith you have if it is never tested.

Becky

86 posted on 10/30/2002 5:41:35 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: Quester
All I did was ask you if Jesus saying something is "spirit" means that it is "symbolic." You have not been able or willing to entertain the thought. You accept that "spirit" equals "symbolic" dogmatically. That is fine.

I don't believe I used the word 'symbolic' or entertained the concept. Do you think that I did ?

Uh, yeah. Think about it. The Lord says "My flesh is true food" and "If you don't eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you."

We take that literally.

You cite a later verse about the "words" being "spirit" in order to come up with an interpretation that is non-literal. I don't see how this is anything other than symbolic, if it is not literal.

Every time this is discussed, the same verse is used to try to negate everything Jesus said. I don't understand why, so I ask. We are told that the "flesh" does not profit.

You yourself say this does not refer to the resurrection of the body. Then to what does it refer? Certainly not to Jesus' flesh, given "for the life of the world?"

Likewise we are told, over and over, that the "words" are "spirit," as if this is self-explanatory that the preceding verses are not to be taken in a literal fashion.

So I ask why "words" being "spirit" precludes a more literal interpretation of the preceding. Why? Logically, linguistically, why?

What I did do was to make the point that JESUS was encouraging and emphasizing SPIRITUALITY in the John 6 passage, as opposed to PHYSICALITY. He begins this emphasis in verse 26 of the passage and continues with it until the end of the chapter.

OK. And why can this "spirituality" not include the belief in the Presence of Jesus in the elements of Communion? It certainly is not something that is discerned by the human eye, or by our PHYSICAL scientific instruments. It is something discerned by faith, discerned by and for the spiritual part of our nature. The "flesh," our bodies, do not profit any more than a small cracker and a sip of wine nourish our flesh. But our SPIRIT profits greatly from this action.

SD

87 posted on 10/30/2002 6:05:17 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
That's what I thought you meant, but that is taking that verse out of context.

Exactly. Just like 2 Tim 3:16 is.

That verse has to do with being steadfast and patient when dealing with trials, the trying of your faith. How will you know how much faith you have if it is never tested.

Look at the language, Becky. Much hoopla is made out of the fact that if the servant of God can be made "perfect" with Scripture that this means Scripture is sufficient.

Then, using the same language, Scripture says that steadfastness can make a man perfect.

Using the principle that Scripture interprets Scripture, either the Bible is contradicting itself when it first says Scripture is sufficient, then says that steadfastness if sufficient. Which is it?

Or it is not arguing that either Scripture or steadfastness are sufficient.

SD

88 posted on 10/30/2002 6:08:12 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Please give your interrupation of 2 Tim 3:16..
89 posted on 10/30/2002 6:23:42 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: SoothingDave
Which is it?

It is you are taking it out of context:) These two verses are speaking of entirely different topics.

Becky

90 posted on 10/30/2002 6:34:35 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Please give your interpretation of 2 Tim 3:16...I have a bad habit of not reading what I type...I fly at 90 wpm or more..
91 posted on 10/30/2002 6:38:48 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
It is you are taking it out of context:) These two verses are speaking of entirely different topics.

Yes, of course there are two different topics. The point is that "Bible only" folks point to the language of being "made perfect," as if it, by itself, means something is sufficient for perfection.

Show us the context of 2 Tim 3 and why the "context" makes this different.

SD

92 posted on 10/30/2002 6:40:21 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: Irisshlass
Scripture gives us all we need to live our lives by.

Becky

93 posted on 10/30/2002 6:41:56 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Scripture gives us all we need to live our lives by.

OK. Now how do you justify this interpretation?

How does something being "profitable" or "useful" translate into it being "all we need?"

SD

94 posted on 10/30/2002 6:45:51 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: SoothingDave; irishlass
2 Tim. is speaking of scripture being all we need to live a christian life.

James 1 is speaking of dealing with trials.

Becky

95 posted on 10/30/2002 6:45:57 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: SoothingDave
Keep reading the next verse. What does "throughly funished" mean. If your house is throughly funished, do you need anything else in it to live?

Becky

96 posted on 10/30/2002 6:47:55 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
Keep reading the next verse. What does "throughly funished" mean. If your house is throughly funished, do you need anything else in it to live?

Right, and if steadfastness will make us perfect, then what else do we need?

You truly can't see the parallel?

Again, something is called, in Scripture, "useful" or "profitable," and you think that means that it is "all we need."

Or to use your analogy, without a comfy couch, your house is not "thoroughly furnished." Does that mean that we only need a couch to "thoroughly furnish" a house?

SD

97 posted on 10/30/2002 6:53:14 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: St.Chuck
You make the assumption it was a common belief..but it was not "mandatory " for a Catholic to believe it untill the 1200's..It was a matter of personal faith.

The Epistles are the doctrinal teachings of the new church written by those that were there..not one reference to the bread being the actual body of Christ..a rememberance to be treated solomely like the passover..a holy time of Gods presence..but no mention that even the disciples that were there understood it to be the actual body..

98 posted on 10/30/2002 7:00:42 AM PST by RnMomof7
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To: PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
but 2 Tim 3:16-17 is not saying that...

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Its saying Scripture is profitable for teaching etc...but not mandatory...

"that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work"

the second clause refers to the man of God (priest, minister, preacher)

also its saying the man of MAY be complete, equipped...not that scripture is in itself..

When you apply this same principle to James 1:4 you have to say we only need steadfastness...
99 posted on 10/30/2002 7:03:08 AM PST by Irisshlass
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To: SoothingDave
Again, something is called, in Scripture, "useful" or "profitable," and you think that means that it is "all we need.

No, I say it is all we need because of the "throughly furnished" part.

In the James verse, we PROVE we are throughly funished by our handling of the trying of our faith. Becky

100 posted on 10/30/2002 7:04:17 AM PST by PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain
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