Fellow Catholics...

B-chan ^ | 2002.10.08 | B-chan

[american colleen]

I kind of hedged about my kids... the Latin Mass is an hour away and the NO is 5 minutes from our house. That might have something to do with the "balkiness." I have to say that my 13 year old daughter has had her eyes opened lately to the odd stuff that goes on at our NO parish.

We are currently having a parish meeting led by a priest and a nun who wrote a book on "enneagram" prayer. They are "leading us into a deeper prayer life" by teaching "centering prayer" which I had never heard of, but sounded hokey, kind of like TM stuff because you chant a holy word over and over again to become deeper within yourself - sort of like a trance. Yesterday we spent 15 minutes with our palms held open in our laps, eyes closed, imagining ourselves in a garden with Jesus "and now what does Jesus have on... traditional biblical garb or a clean pair of jeans and sweatshirt?" .... "Jesus is now telling you how much He loves you, what words is he using?"... "And now Jesus has to leave. He says to you 'I'm sorry I have to go. I love being with you and I will be back'."

I just sat there looking for a barf bag, but I was the only one... I can't take much more.

[Maximilian]

>>I just sat there looking for a barf bag, but I was the only one... I can't take much more.

Your instincts are on target, but I wouldn't take even a minute more of that stuff. This kind of meditation is not only dangerous to your faith, but dangerous to your emotional and psychological stability as well. I'm VERY familiar with "centering prayer," and it basically amounts to christian/buddhist syncretism. I hope this doesn't sound too far out, but -- relating to another current thread about the exorcism -- it even makes you susceptible to demonic influence.

If you can't physically get to the Latin Mass, at least get far away from these people who are obviously dangerous.

[Maximilian]

>>They are patently living in sin, like 99% of all other Catholics. The grace was just never there.
>>Arrogance is your stock-in-trade, it appears.
>>Just what is your outrageous assertion supposed to mean?

I confess my arrogance. It's a besetting sin that I need to work on.

However, the statistics are accurate. When you look at the numbers, virtually all Catholics objectively are living in a state of mortal sin.

Start with the issue at hand, Mass attendance. Missing Mass even once is a mortal sin. Now of the 25% of Catholics attending Mass on a Sunday, how many go every Sunday? It's not the exact same 25% every week. What percent make it to Mass 60 times per year?

Contraception: Both Catholic and secular sources agree that 95% of Catholic couples of child-bearing age are using birth control at least some of the time. That's been defined as a "sin against nature and a deed which is shameful and intrinsically vicious," and those who do so "are branded with the guilt of a grave sin."

Then we move on to sins that are even more ubiquitous. What about pornography? And masturbation? It's virtually impossible to partake of today's media without participating in these sins. How many Catholics have really separated themselves from the pornographic culture?

Then we have divorce and remarriage. This has always been considered particularly grave because you are committing a mortal sin every day and every night that you live together.

Then there's the worst of all: sacrilege. Every Sunday morning, Catholics are lined up by the thousands to receive the Body and Blood of Christ even though they are living in sin and have not gone to confession. The most and the worst sins are not committed on Saturday night, but on Sunday morning.

Who then is left? Not me, let me admit, when I was still attending the Novus Ordo. But at least I hardly ever received communion. Often I was the only one in the church to stay in the pew. I was trying to be good through the Pelagian heresy of my own free will. I was aware that it wasn't working, but I didn't have a better solution. Now I have the grace of the true Mass. And my life has changed, Deo Gratias.

[american colleen]

I know you are right, but honest to God, people think this New Age stuff is great. At one point, the dulcet, honeyed nun's voice actually said "for all that He created... or She created" - honest to God.

I've been going to the morning sessions because I work at night, although I do have tomorrow night off, so I will attend that. My faith is truly strengthened in a way, because I say the rosary immediately, each time I leave these people. I'm going out of curiousity and to reassure myself that I am not wrong about my parish... because I seem to be about the only one who notices and comments on these things. The things I've come to understand is that the "dissenters" do not like traditional Catholicism as it was understood before the 1970s. They want to jettison anything that isn't acceptible to everyone and become more protestant... kind of a bastardized form of ecumenism. Everything is stripped down to just "ourselves" - and me, me , me is very prevalent. Everything is about love and how much God loves us, very little about sin, in fact, I cannot remember sin mentioned at all. The mention enough Catholic teaching so that you cannot say right out they are heretical, but the heretical is mixed in if you listen.

The thing is, they appear to be very nice people, have very soothing voices, are ordained or part of the religious life and make us feel good about ourselves.

A lethal combination. And there are tons of them out there, and I don't know why. Maybe it is worse here in the Arch of Boston, it seems most of the dissent started here, years ago.

[sinkspur]

When you look at the numbers, virtually all Catholics objectively are living in a state of mortal sin.

Except you.

I'm sure you thank God every day you are not like the rest of men.

Like that Pharisee in Our Lord's parable.

Pride is the worst of all sins, my friend.

[Snuffington]

What's there to "resolve"? The Pope has said that the Novus Ordo is normative.

As long as we're both in agreement that your comment about the relative popularity of the Novus Ordo versus the traditional Mass is irrelevant, I don't think we have anything to resolve.

[Siobhan]

I wish to apologize to you, Maximilian. I seriously misjudged you, and I am deeply sorry. I can see that you and I share some similar concerns even though we would part company on some issues. I wish to offer you a pledge of peace and a sincere desire to converse with you about our Divine Savior, the Church we both love, and the enormous, matchless, priceless gift of our Lord truly and fully present in the Holy Eucharist. I would imagine we both share a passionate devotion to our Blessed Mother.

I do seriously entreat you for your forgiveness and an opportunity to start over in our FR relationship. I know there will be disagreements, but I think we might surprise each other. In any event, God bless.

[narses]

How many go to confession? My local paper (and almost every Catholic I know here agreed with the stats) said that 80% act against the contraceptive teaching of the Church and simply don't go to confession either. At one of my local chapels, confession (for 6,000 people) is one hour a week and a general absolution every Sunday. Is that proper? I don't know what the true numbers are, but I am sure Our Lord knows.

[Siobhan]

I am a great champion of the Anglican Use parishes. Though they are few, what they offer is a desperately needed influence that runs contrary to the liturgical terrorists that beset the Latin rite parishes. The AU Canon of the Mass is Miles Coverdale's translation of the Canon of the Mass as it was celebrated in Salisbury Cathedral (the ancient Sarum Use). There really is precious little of Mr. Cranmer, and there is a great deal of the treasures of the Catholic faith. I have found such reverence and faithfulness among the AU parishes and parishioners that it has brought tears of joy to my eyes. And their Liturgy shows that there really is a beautiful way to use the English language and it underlines just how poor the ICEL translations are. I can give a ringing endorsement for my experiences at St. Athanasius in Boston and Our Lady of Walsingham in Houston. And there is no doubt that Fr. Phillips at Our Lady of the Atonement in San Antonio is one of the truly great priests of the Church in America.

[Siobhan]

A general absolution?

[american colleen]

Boy, you are good! I never heard of "centering" prayer until this morning. I knew it was bs so I came home, said the rosary and did a search on google. I spent the day kind of depressed (well, it was laundry and vacuuming day) because it has really really hit me of late... why are these people who profess to be Catholics, who are in the religious life and who are in positions of influence over so many of us, allowed to florish? It is a scandal of huge dimentions, IMO. Whole orders of priests and nuns are afflicted with this so called New Age bunk. It is not Catholicism, so why are they still Catholics?

How did you find out about "centering prayer?" The thing is, they wrap it up with some orthodoxy, so it is hard discern whether it is heretical or not, for a lot of people. And a lot of people figure if they are hearing about it from priests and nuns and within the parish environment, it must be OK.

[Siobhan]

Ditto, sandyeggo. The kinds of "spirituality" are really syncretistic movements not unlike macumba and umbanda in Brazil that mix voodoo with a some dashes of Catholicism thrown in.

Colleen, praying the Rosary is the answer -- and the Chaplets like Divine Mercy or St. Michael.

[Maximilian]

>>My local paper (and almost every Catholic I know here agreed with the stats) said that 80% act against the contraceptive teaching of the Church and simply don't go to confession either.

The 80% figure is misleading. It reflects the percentage using contraception at the time of the survey. But most couples want to have their 2 children. So they won't be using birth control at the time of the survey, or they're pregnant, etc.

The more relevant question is how many use birth control at some point during their marriage? Then the figures start at 95% and I've seen as high as 99% (reported by Couple-to-Couple League).

[Siobhan]

Each Tuesday we go to daily Mass at a parish on the way to see my husband's parents. There was a new priest and it was one of the most upsetting experiences I have ever had in church. The priest's homily was pure heresy. My husband took notes and sent a letter to the bishop and others at the chancery. It feels to me that instead of exposing and casting out the evil in our midst, that Evil has been brazenly marching on.

[Maximilian]

>>The AU Canon of the Mass is Miles Coverdale's translation of the Canon of the Mass as it was celebrated in Salisbury Cathedral (the ancient Sarum Use).

This sounds a lot better, if it's true. I was reliably informed by a well-known priest who celebrates the rite that the canon of the Mass he celebrates is taken from the Novus Ordo.

If they really celebrate the Sarum Rite, then that would be a different kettle of fish altogether.

As to your apology, I am touched and moved. Really I can't imagine what you're apologizing for, but please be assured of only my best regards. You're now at the end of my ping list, which gives you a chance to help me out. I've been wondering how I would know if all the notifications are not really being distributed. So if you get notified of my next post, then I'll know that FR went through the whole list.

[dsc]

"why are these people who profess to be Catholics, who are in the religious life and who are in positions of influence over so many of us, allowed to florish? It is a scandal of huge dimentions, IMO. Whole orders of priests and nuns are afflicted with this so called New Age bunk. It is not Catholicism, so why are they still Catholics?"

Has anyone thought that it might be time for the laity to seize these people by their arms and expel them bodily from Church property?

Perhaps a simple refusal to accept the situation might lead to reform.