30,000 Protestant Denominations?

http://www.pressiechurch.org/Shepherding_the_Sheep/How%20many%20Protestant%20denominations%20are%20there.htm ^ | 9/24/02 | Eric Svendsen 

[Theresa]

"LOL...Hey Theresa if i am my own Pope I am my own Bishop too~:>)"

Okay pope mom but are you sure that is a good idea? ;O>

"There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering" (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]). Cyprian of Carthage

[Tantumergo]

"The word for Peter derives from the Hebrew "peter" [pitrah] [Strong's Concordance #6363] and it means "the firstling", "the firstborn", "the one who opens the womb"."

If you had a snowball in hell's chance of being right about this meaning for Peter, you would in fact be presenting the Catholic Church with one of the greatest apologias for the Papacy that has ever existed.

Think about it - Christ our High Priest of the order of Melkisidek and Son of David, naming Peter his very own first-born? - you can't possibly have any clue about the implications of what you are saying!

Anyway, I don't know why you are all getting so wound up about Petros/Cephas/Kepha. The most important scriptural evidence for Peter's primacy and the Papacy is this:

Is 22:15 "Thus saith the Lord God of hosts: Go, get thee in to him that dwelleth in the tabernacle, to Sobna who is over the temple: and thou shalt say to him:
16 What dost thou here, or as if thou wert somebody here? for thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, thou hast hewed out a monument carefully in a high place, a dwelling for thyself in a rock.
17 Behold the Lord will cause thee to be carried away, as a cock is carried away, and he will lift thee up as a garment.
18 He will crown thee with a crown of tribulation, he will toss thee like a ball into a large and spacious country: there shalt thou die, and there shall the chariot of thy glory be, the shame of the house of thy Lord.
19 And I will drive thee out From thy station, and depose thee from thy ministry.
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliacim the son of Helcias,
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and will strengthen him with thy girdle, and will give thy power into his hand: and he shall be as a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Juda.
22 And I will lay the key of the house of David upon his shoulder: and he shall open, and none shall shut: and he shall shut, and none shall open.
23 And I will fasten him as a peg in a sure place, and he shall be for a throne of glory to the house of his father.
24 And they shall hang upon him all the glory of his father's house, divers kinds of vessels, every little vessel, from the vessels of cups even to every instrument of music.
25 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, shall the peg be removed, that was fastened in the sure place: and it shall be broken and shall fall: and that which hung thereon, shall perish, because the Lord hath spoken it."

[RnMomof7]

I thought you'd like that namesake

2Cr 13:5   Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? The apostle Paul :>)

[RobbyS]

Going back and forth on the exact meaning of the words in Matthew I6 is somewhat like doing the same to certain undefined terms in the Constitution, such as "commander-in-chief" One thing is clear: the writers of the Constitution conferred a title on the President and implicitly, a function, but it is history that has defined the limits of its exercise.

[Celtman]

Catholicguy: Jesus spoke Aramaic

      I'm sure he did - as well as Hebrew, Greek, Latin, ...
      Since Peter was a fisherman, Jesus probably did speak these words in Aramaic, but what is your source for which Aramaic word was used? 

Catholicguy: I think the KJV still does.

      No.  It never did.  Are you under the impression the KJV has changed? Perhaps you are thinking of

John 1:42: And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone. (KJV)

SoothingDave: And you believed it?

      Yes, I did - and do.  From Young's Concordance, Peter = petros, a stone, and rock = petra, a rock.

SoothingDave: Come, see "sola scriptura" in action!

      Sorry, not interested.  "Sola scriptura" seems to be a Romanist term for a misinterpretation of non-Romanist beliefs.

[RobbyS]

You prefer "Literalism?"

[Celtman]

You prefer "Literalism?"

      To what, for what?

[Woodkirk]

Oh would the world love to see that -- after 1500 years of selling Peter as the Rock, now they finally discover the Hebrew in him. Wouldn't that be precious. Here are all these learned Catholic scholars who finally open up their OT and where have they been all these years.

Then they would have to recall all of those thousands of encyclicals, and catechisms, and apologetic materials, and hope that no one remembers all those years when the Church of Rome confused Peter as the Rock and not the first of the apostles to be BORN AGAIN of water and the spirit, you know, a firstling of those BORN AGAINs that Rome so rails against, whose name is further evidence of that evangelical gospel of the new birth.

And then they would have to explain all of his other FIRSTs that Peter fulfilled --- most notably, the FIRST leader of the FIRST Church in that FIRST of all cities in God's eyes, Jerusalem, where the FIRST believers were Jews to whom the Gospel FIRST went. All putting Rome way down the list -- far from the FIRST.

Nyaaaaah -- I'm not worried. You see those "keys" to the kingdom with their binding and loosing powers, if vested in only Peter, were vested in him as the first leader of the church in Jerusalem, not Rome. He issued his encyclicals from there not Rome. He did his binding and loosing from there not Rome. He passed his bishopric down to James, the brother of Jesus, not Linus. You guys have the wrong keys to the wrong city and the wrong Simon ---- and now you know that you have the wrong meaning for his name --- another FIRST.

[Quester]

John 21:20 Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee?

21 Peter, seeing him, saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do?

22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? ... follow thou me.

23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

[SoothingDave]

Uh huh. And what does "Theotokos" mean?

You and CCWoody need to get together ---

Why, is he cute?

Does that mean you won't tell us what Theotokos means?

SD

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

OR:Incidentally, what was the name Jesus called Peter the very last time he spoke to him?

Dave: Who knows? Is there a record in Scripture that says "and this is the last time Jesus spoke to Peter, and this is the appelation He used?"

I did not follow the discussion yesterday, and I don't know the answer to this question. This morning I read the last few post on this page. Without knowing the line of discussion I KNEW what Reggie meant with this question and although your answer is typical Dave, it's about as evasive as you could get. Why do you do this? You would be alot more credible if you just answered questions in a straight forward manner. I know you are not stupid, quite the contrary.

Becky

[Onelifetogive]

You are now pretending that SD thinks praying to God is wrong for Catholics

I don't think I am doing that at all. If confession to a priest and asking forgiveness from him is necessary, then, obviously, praying directly to God and asking His forgiveness is insufficient.

This is what I disagree with.

If Catholicism made confession to a priest and performing the priest's penance optional (i.e. Praying to God or confessing to the priest), they would simply be adding to Scripture and not contradicting it.

As it is SD, claims that belief and participation in the "sacrament" of confession is mandatory. Peter did not require confession to him, but to God (as I posted.)

[RobbyS]

The literalist thinks that a dead document springs to life in his inspired hands. . Never mind the great men who struggled over its meaning.

[Woodkirk]

Where is it found in Scripture?

[SoothingDave]

OR:Incidentally, what was the name Jesus called Peter the very last time he spoke to him?

I did not follow the discussion yesterday, and I don't know the answer to this question. This morning I read the last few post on this page. Without knowing the line of discussion I KNEW what Reggie meant with this question and although your answer is typical Dave, it's about as evasive as you could get. Why do you do this? You would be alot more credible if you just answered questions in a straight forward manner. I know you are not stupid, quite the contrary.

I'm not stupid and neither are you or Reggie. But when he says something that is not true, or not verifiable, I will call him on it. If Reggie was making a case about Scripture, I would let his imprecise wording go.

But he wasn't. He was trying to say that the episode captured in Scripture was the "last" time Jesus spoke to Peter, and that His choice of names was somehow significant.

We know from history that if this was Jesus changing Peter's name back to Simon that Jesus failed miserably in getting his point across.

SD

[SoothingDave]

Where is it found in Scripture?

It's not. But that didn't stop you before. Tell us all what "Theotokos" means.

SD

[CCWoody]

Why, is he cute?

Why, I'm gorgeous!

Unfortunately, for all of FR's unattached females, I'm already married.

Sincerely,
the Cute Calvinist Woody

[IMRight]

what is your source for which Aramaic word was used?

Since he is refered to throughout Scripture as Cephas... what other Aramaic name might Jesus have used?

Are you under the impression the KJV has changed?

Well. Actually. Yes.
I have an early copy of the KJV that does not always read the same as the one you probably have. One obvious difference is that it has a few more books than yours does.

"Sola scriptura" seems to be a Romanist term for a misinterpretation of non-Romanist beliefs.

That's a new one. The way Catholics often talk about Sola Scriptuara may not always match up with how Protestants now claim they think about the subject. But we certainly didn't make the term up.

[OLD REGGIE]

Woops - you forgot to read the whole book to get the context. Here is what else the Catechism has to say about St. Peter:

CCC paragraph 881: The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church. He gave him the keys of his Church and instituted him shepherd of the whole flock. "The office of binding and loosing which was given to Peter was also assigned to the college of apostles united to its head." This pastoral office of Peter and the other apostles belongs to the Church's very foundation and is continued by the bishops under the primacy of the Pope.

Read the entire Catechism? No I haven't. Have you? I did; however, read Paragraph 881. I took the liberty of highlighting the operative word. There is a massive difference between a claim that Peter is the rock of his Church and the claim that Peter is the Rock.

1Corinthians 10:
[4] and all drank the same supernatural drink. For they drank from the supernatural Rock which followed them, and the Rock was Christ.

According to Scripture there is only one Rock upon which the Church is built.
====================================================================================

Of course one as familiar with the Catechism as you didn't miss the following:

552 Simon Peter holds the first place in the college of the Twelve; (283) Jesus entrusted a unique mission to him. Through a revelation from the Father, Peter had confessed: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." Our Lord then declared to him: "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it." (284) Christ, the "living Stone", (285) thus assures his Church, built on Peter, of victory over the powers of death. Because of the faith he confessed Peter will remain the unshakeable rock of the Church. His mission will be to keep this faith from every lapse and to strengthen his brothers in it. (286)

I'm not surprised that you might be confused by the choice of words in the three seperate Paragraphs. If all else fails, try Scripture.

[malakhi]

"The Lord made Simon alone, whom he named Peter, the "rock" of his Church."

"On the rock of this faith confessed by St. Peter, Christ built his Church."

There seems to be a difference of opinion here. Can you resolve the apparent contradiction?