What is predestination?

http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/9170/SPROUL13.HTM ^ | 9/11/02 | R. C. Sproul

[Aggressive Calvinist]

If God is not the "author and finisher" of our damnation, who is?

[Irisshlass]

If a person was predestined to enter my living room, would it not mean he was predestined to remain forever in my living room?

[RnMomof7]

If this is a metaphor for salvation yes...if it is your living room I think unless it is your predestined spouse he will be predestined to leave at the appointed time:>))

[Irisshlass]

What about Luke 8:13..."believe for a while" but "in time of temptation fall away" would say predestination to salvation does not entail final salvation..

[RnMomof7]

  Luk 8:13   They on the rock [are they], which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away

It does not say they were ever saved does it? It says they heard it and it made them happy....but it never took root..

What is the gospel? Repent and Believe and you will be saved....You can hear that and rejoice that you can be saved and then walk away without ever repenting (there are churchs full of these kinds of christians today..they want the good news but not the bad ..they like being saved ...but they want to do it without repentance. They like thier sin..they want it both ways....)

[Catholicguy]

If a person was predestined to enter my living room, would it not mean he was predestined to remain forever in my living room?

<>Look, there are some on these threads who actually believe God created folks to populate Hell. You are not going to get anywhere using reason :)<>

[RnMomof7]

No one will be in hell that does not make a conscious choice to go there by refusing the gospel

[P-Marlowe]

If God is not the "author and finisher" of our damnation, who is?

You are. Just as you are the author and finisher of your own sins. God does not sin on your behalf. God does not MAKE you sin. You do.

[Catholicguy]

No one will be in hell that does not make a conscious choice to go there by refusing the gospel

<> That begs the question; "Were they predestined to refuse the Gospel?"<>

[P-Marlowe]

Is God helpless in the face of sin and unable to act?

That is a non-sequitur.

[RnMomof7]

If God is not helpless and unable to act we must then assume that nothing...not even sin occurs without the express consent of God...

[RnMomof7]

The men that hear the Gospel are those that are born again ,thus having the ability to hear and respond to it...that is a sovereign act of God....(yes he invites who He choses into his livingroom)

[P-Marlowe]

not even sin occurs without the express consent of God

And does this mean that God is the cause of sin, or merely that sin occurs even though God has the inherent power to stop it by doing something like removing man's free will (which it appears that he does not do).

[RnMomof7]

And does this mean that God is the cause of sin, or merely that sin occurs even though God has the inherent power to stop it by doing something like removing man's free will (which it appears that he does not do).

Really???God NEVER stops a sin???

Do you believe in Gods "common" grace?

Can a sin occur without Gods permission?

Did God know that Adam was going to sin?

[P-Marlowe]

Answer my question first. Is God the "cause" of sin? Does man sin in opposition to God's "will"? or is it God's "will" that man sins?

[RnMomof7]

God is the "first" cause of all things...ahhhh haaaaa he says " I knew it":>))

God made you PM. He gave you every preference you hold...He knows exactly what choices you will make and what sin you will commit.

He could have made you with different wants and preferences...but he made you as you are...so he is the first cause of every decision you have ever made or will ever make

To prove that point I asked you several questions

Really???God NEVER stops a sin???

Do you believe in Gods "common" grace?

Can a sin occur without Gods permission?

Did God know that Adam was going to sin?

PM NOTHING HAPPENS WITHOUT GODS CONSENT

[P-Marlowe]

Yes or no.

Is it God's will that man sins?

[Catholicguy]

No one will be in hell that does not make a conscious choice to go there by refusing the gospel

<> That begs the question; "Were they predestined to refuse the Gospel?"<>

The men that hear the Gospel are those that are born again ,thus having the ability to hear and respond to it...that is a sovereign act of God....(yes he invites who He choses into his livingroom)

<> To me, your response indicates you believe God indeed does create folks predetermined for Hell. Is that correct? <>

[RnMomof7]

Yes or no. Is it God's will that man sins?

Come on PM...you can do beltter than this..LOL...take a shot at the questions...

It is funny...as long as I have been a Christian I never asked those question..I just " assumed"..But they are logical questions. .

Even if they do not lead to an ultimate view of calvinism they make us think about the nature and work of God..and that is always good!

[RnMomof7]

That means God chooses to have mercy on whom he will have mercy...do you have a problem with that ?