The Book of Abraham Fraud

To any Lurkers out there who believe that the Book of Abraham was somehow divinely inspired and correctly translated by Joseph Smith, which, if any, of the following statements do you believe to be true:

1. Joseph Smith did just exactly as he said he did and as it has always been held: he obtained the actual, original writings of Abraham and did accurately translate them by the gift and power of God. Either modern Egyptology is completely wrong, or else God has allowed Satan to alter the materials we now have, perhaps to separate the truly loyal Saints from among the less sincere.

2. Joseph Smith did have Abraham's original writings and properly translated them, but the originals have not been recovered. Either the true text of the Book of Abraham was from a different (lost) portion of the Book of Breathings scroll, or the Facsimiles were always on a different scroll, separate from Abraham's text, and Abraham's statements about them have been misunderstood. It is also possible that Satan has confused the world's scholars about Facsimile No. 1, and even altered the "Small Sensen" papyrus to make it look like it was once attached to it, though it never really was. Satan could also have altered the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar to make Joseph Smith look bad, and done the same with Facsimile No. 2, Facsimile No. 3 and the rest of the material.

3. The papyri we have, as well as the Facsimiles, are what the Egyptologists say they are, but they are also the Book of Abraham --technically speaking. There is a deeper meaning to them, somewhat like a code, which has not yet been discovered by the world. Joseph Smith could determine this meaning by the gift and power of God, but he did not know about or simply did not mention the other more "common" meaning of the papyri. Joseph Smith may have even been mistaken about them having been penned by Abraham himself, but that is all right because the important thing was the coming forth of the inspired text encrypted within the originals and handed down in them as they were copied over and over again through the ages.

4. Joseph Smith only thought he was translating Abraham's record from the papyri. Actually, some ordinary funeral papyri from Egypt functioned as a sort of spiritual catalyst to Joseph Smith's mind, so that he received the Book of Abraham as a result of direct revelation -- and God allowed him and everyone else to believe he was translating. God also allowed Joseph Smith to believe his Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar was authentic and worthwhile, when actually it was useless. Or perhaps Joseph only considered it a hobby and all the statements he made concerning it have been misunderstood. And, though Joseph never said so, his clerks were the ones responsible for stupidly placing the characters from the "Small Sensen" fragment (Papyrus Joseph Smith XI) on three of his translation manuscripts.

5. The Book of Abraham is not an ancient scriptural contribution, but a modern one that has simply been placed in an ancient setting. As a modern revelation to Joseph Smith, its lessons, teachings, and values still apply, naturally, but it is a mistake to try to fit it into an historical context, such as the lifetime of Abraham. Better to just accept it for what it says, and not be concerned over what is said about it.

6. The Book of Abraham is not really scripture at all, but merely the "speculative writing" of Joseph Smith. Again, perhaps he thought he actually was translating and producing authentic scripture, perhaps not. If he did, he was mistaken. Joseph was still capable and worthy of being a prophet in other areas.

Very interesting rebuttal of Joe Smith's work. I expect the great debate defense that includes 'whatever' to appear.

Judging from the response on the Stupid Church Tricks thread, I will be somewhat suprised if any LDS show up at all to tackle this subject. Most likely they will simply request that it be deleted. It is, after all a very touchy subject for those who believe in the divine call of Joseph Smith.

We shall see.

The possibility of the thread being pulled was why I copied the link. Interesting information there.

Thanks for this. I learned a lot today. Joseph Smith was a charlatan, of course, but none of this validates in any way Christian mythology itself. I also found a little vile the depiction of Egyptian religious practices as filth and demonic, inasmuch as they would doubtless have said the same thing about Christian practices.

But it was an enjoyable and educating read. Thanks for posting it.

The Egyptian characters in the left margin of page 3 of the original Book of Abraham translation manuscript (below right) match up exactly with a succession of Egyptian characters from the upper right column of a section of the Book of Abraham scroll called Papyrus Joseph Smith 11 (below left).

The original Book of Abraham translation manuscript has a succession of Egyptian characters from the papyrus scroll copied down the left margin. A careful examination reveals that these Egyptian characters were copied in order from PJS 11, indicating that the Book of Abraham is supposed to have been translated from this section of the papyrus scroll. This page of the translation manuscript begins at the end of Abraham 1:11 — "Therefore they were killed upon this altar, and it was done after the manner of the Egyptians."

Source

From Michael Rhodes website, on Fascimile 2. Here is the link you can read the rest, but here are the comments I found interesting. The Joseph Smith Hypocephalus: Seventeen Years Later

The text as well as the figures and illustrations of the Joseph Smith Hypocephalus all point toward the Egyptians' hope in a resurrection and life after death as a divine being. Although to our modern way of thinking, this message is conveyed by a strange assortment of gods, animals, and other bizarre figures, it is important to remember, that to the Egyptians, who always tried to express abstract ideas with concrete representations, these were all aspects of the One God who manifested himself in many forms.

It is especially significant to recognize that knowledge of these things was unavailable even to the best scholars of Joseph Smith's day. The pseudepigraphic works attributed to Abraham I cited above, for example, first came to light near the turn of this century. The demotic papyri referring to Abraham were not published until 1839 and a translation of them not until 1904.[80] Although Champollion had deciphered Egyptian hieroglyphs in 1822, it required many years of painstaking work before Egyptologists were able to publish grammars and dictionaries of the Egyptian language. Joseph Smith simply could not have acquired the understanding he had of these things by worldly means. Nevertheless, as this study has shown, many of the prophet's explanations of the hypocephalus illustrated in Facsimile 2 are supported by our present understanding of ancient Egyptian religion, and are in fact especially typical of Late Egyptian religious writings. One or two could conceivably be dismissed as mere chance or lucky guessing, but the many correct interpetations taken together are impossible to ignore. It is clear that Joseph Smith knew what he was talking about. This only reaffirms what every honest person can learn in earnest prayer, that Joseph Smith received these things from God, even as he claimed.

INTERPRETATION by M. Theodule Deveria

	By the Mormon Prophet	By the Hieroglyphists
Fig. 1	Kolob, signifying the first creation, nearest to the celestial, or the residence of God. First in governmment, the last pertaining to the measurement of time. The measurement according to the celestial time signifies one day to a cubit. One day in Kolob is equal to a thousand years, according to the measurement of this earth, which is called by the Egyptians Jah-oh-eh.	The spirit of four elements (according to Champollion), or rather of the four winds, or the four cardinal points; the soul of the terrestrial world. This god is always represented with four ram's heads, and his image has certainly been altered here. - They have also evidently made a very clumsy attempt at copying the double human head of the god figured below, fig. 2, instead of the four ram's heads. The word Jah-oh-eh has nothing Egyptian in it ; it resembles a Hebrew word badly transcribed.
Fig. 2	Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial, or the place where God resides; holding the key of power, also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham, as he offered sacrifice upon an altar which he had built unto the Lord.	Ammon-Ra, with two human heads, meant probably to represent both the invisible or mysterious principle of Ammon, and the visible or luminous principle of Ra, the sun; or else the double and simultaneous principle of father and son; which characterizes divinity in the religion of ancient Egypt. - The word Oliblish is no more Egyptian than those already met with, nor than those which are to be found in the Mormon explanation.
Fig. 3	Is made to represent God, sitting upon his throne, clothed with power and authority: with a crown of eternal light upon his head: representing, also, the grand key-words of the Holy Priesthood, as revealed to Adam in the Garden of Eden, as also to Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, and all to whom the Priesthood was revealed.	The god Ra, the sun, with a hawks head, seated in his boat. In the field the two symbolical figuring, according to M. de Rouge, the fixed points of an astronomical period.
Fig. 4	Answers to the Hebrew word Raukeeyang, signifying expanse, or the firmament of the heavens; also a numerical figure, in Egyptian, signifying one thousand; answering to the measuring of the time of Oliblish, which is equal with Kolob in its revolution, and in its measuring of time.	The Hebrew word Roki'a, expansuna, solidum, ecalum,firmamentum, besides being badly described, has no relation whatever to this figure, which represents a mummified hawk, called in Egyptian Ah'em. It is the symbol of the divine repose of death; its extended wings have reference to the resurrection.
Fig. 5	Is called in Egyptian Enish-go-on-dosh; that is, one of the governing planets also; and is said by the Egyptians to be the sun, and to borrow its light from Kolob through the medium of Kae-e-vanrash, which is the grand Key, or in other words, the governing power, which governs fifteen other fixed planets or stars, as also Floeese, or the moon, the earth, and the sun, in their annual revolutions. This planet receives its power throuoh the medium of Kli-flos-is-es, or Hah-ko-kau-beam, the stars represented by numbers 22 and 23, receiving light from the revolutions of Kolob.	The mystic cow, the great cow, symbolizing the inferior hemisphere of the heavens. It is called the virgin cow at ch. 162 of the funerary ritual, which, particularly enjoins that its image be painted on the hypocephalus, and another image of it in gold on the throat of the defunct. It is the form of Hathor, who figures on several monuments under the name of noub, gold. Behind the cow is a goddess, whose head, represented by a mystic eye in a disk, is incorrectly copied.
Fig. 6	Represents the earth in its four quarters.	The four funerary genii, the sons of Osiris, Amset, Hapi, Tioumautow, and Kebhsoniw.
Fig. 7	Represents God sitting upon his throne, revealing through the heavens the grand Key-Words of the Priesthood; as, also, the sign of the Holy Ghost unto Abraham in the form of a dove.	The form of Ammon, with a bird's tail, or Horammon (?). An ithyphallic serpant, with human legs, offers him a symbolical eye. This last figure has certainly been altered in the hypocephalus of the Mormons.
Fig. 8	Contains writing that cannot be revealed unto the world; but is to be had in the Holy Temple of God.	Four lines of the linear hieroglyphic text, which are numbered from bottom to top, instead of from top to bottom. The meaning is: O great God in Sekhem; 0 great God, Lord of heaven, earth, and hell. . . . Osiris S'es'enq. These last wordsinform us that the personage in whose mummy this hypocephalus was found was called S'es'enq or S'esonchis, a name written Sesak in the Bible, and of which there is no known example anterior to the twenty-second dynasty; that is, to the ninth century before our era, but which may be much posterior to it.
Fig. 9	Ought not to be revealed at the present time.	Also.
Fig. 10	Also.	Also.
Fig. 11	Also - If the world can find out the numbers, so let it be. Amen.	Also.
Fig. 12 - 15	Will be given in the own due time of the Lord. The above translation is given as far as we have any right to give, at the present time.	Four lines of writing similar to the former, of which they are the pendant. They appear to be numbered upside down, and are illegibly copied.
Fig. 16 - 17	Also.	Two more lines which cannot be deciphered in the copy. it begins above the god with two human heads, fig.2; and there is in it twice mention made of a sacred dwelling-place in Heliopolis.
Fig. 18 - 21	Also.	These columns of writing, illegible in the copy. It is evident to me that several of the figures to be found in these various MSS. have been intentionally altered. - T. DEVERIA -

Who you gonna believe, Joseph Smith and his magic rock or those stuffy Egyptologists?

I also found a little vile the depiction of Egyptian religious practices as filth and demonic, inasmuch as they would doubtless have said the same thing about Christian practices.

Sigh. I also found rather annoying the quite gratuitous comments on Egyptian religious practices, not least because several of my own religious practices have Egyptian origins. It is one thing to demonstrate that the Book of Abraham is a hoax, and quite another deliberately to insult the religious beliefs of a great civilization.

But the Egyptians would have behaved differently. Theirs was a syncretic religion, and taught that the True Gods are not jealous one of another.

So, I don't believe Mormons are going to Hell because they adopted a bizarre form of the Cult of Menu. Neither are the adherents of a certain other Christian denomination, that adopted a bizarre form of the Cult of Isis.

I couldn't agree with you more. Which means you'll probably get flamed a lot.

Well, no. Try this.

Note: A trace of the original hieroglyphic writing from this hypocephalus is visible on the left edge of Fig. 12, 13, 14, and 15, but only the phrase "his words" can be made out at the end of the line in Fig. 15. The remainder of these lines are filled with hieratic writing taken from lines 4 and 5 of Papyrus Joseph Smith XI.
Joseph Smith Fig. 9 "Ought not to be revealed at the present time."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 9 "the netherworld (below the earth) and his great waters"
Joseph Smith Fig. 10 "Also" [see above]	Egyptian Translation Fig. 10 "O mighty god, lord of heaven and earth"
Joseph Smith Fig. 11 "Also. [See above] If the world can find out these numbers, so let it be. Amen."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 11 "O god of the sleeping ones from the time of creation" (Note the above phrases make up a single message in the following order- 11, 10, 9, 8.)
Joseph Smith Fig. 12 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 12 (upside down) "near" and "wrap"
Joseph Smith Fig. 13 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 13 (upside down) "which made by"
Joseph Smith Fig. 14 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 14 (upside down) "breathings"
Joseph Smith Fig. 15 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 15 (upside down) "this book"
Joseph Smith Fig. 16 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 16 "and may this soul and its possessor never be desecrated in the netherworld"
Joseph Smith Fig. 17 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 17 "May this tomb never be desecrated"
Joseph Smith Fig. 18 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Fig. 18 Note: Three-fourths of the original hieroglyphics inscription appears to have survived, and counterclockwise reads: "I am Djabty in the house of Benben in Heliopolis, so exalted and glorious. [I am] copulating bull without equal. [I am] that mighty god in the house of Benben of Heliopolis... that might god..."
Joseph Smith Figs. 19,20, and 21 "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."	Egyptian Translation Figs. 19, 20, and 21 "You shall be as that god, the Busirian."

Facsimile No. 3

(Go here to see images related to Facsimile No. 3.).

Here's Nibley, talking about you, Marlowe:

If the Church has any first foundation, it is the unimpeachable testimony of the individual. Since this is nontransmissible, one might dismiss it as irrelevant, an absolute beyond discussion, criticism, or demonstration. Even for the individual, the testimony comes and goes in accordance with faith and behavior. If it is real, then it is indeed unassailable and imponderable. I cannot force my testimony on you, but there are certain indications to which I might call your attention. People who lose their testimonies and renounce the Church or drop out of it, if they are convinced of their position, should be totally indifferent to the folly of their deluded one-time brethren and sisters: if they want to make fools of themselves, that is up to them, but we are intellectually and socially above all that. Well and good, that is how it is in other churches; but here it does not work that way.
Apostates usually become sometimes feverishly active, determined to prove to the world and themselves that it is a fraud after all. What is that to them? Apparently it is everything—it will not let them alone. At the other end of the scale are those who hold no rancor and even retain a sentimental affection for the Church—they just don't believe the gospel. I know quite a few of them. But how many of them can leave it alone? It haunts them all the days of their life. No one who has ever had a testimony ever forgets or denies that he once did have it—that it was something that really happened to him. Even for such people who do not have it anymore, a testimony cannot be reduced to an illusion.

You're reducing yourself to quite the object of pity here, Marlowe.

Since you obviously don't have the sense to be embarassed for yourself, shall we be embarassed for you?

Kudos for actually being able to read Joe Smith's rather eccentric hieroglyphic hand!

One obvious correction: in fragment 18 the word "I am" (a copulating bull) is indeed in the text - you'll find "nk" (for inuk) immediately after the bull.

Nibley couldn't deal with the fact that Smith was wrong either. Deflect and attack. The 'whatever' arguement.

Here's Nibley, talking about you, Marlowe:

Wrong. Here's Nibley making up excuses for why people leave the Church when faced with the objective facts which dispute their subjective testimony.

If the Church has any first foundation, it is the unimpeachable testimony of the individual

Wrong. The foundation of the true church of Christ is the rock of Jesus Christ. It is the fact of his sacrifice for our sins, and his resurrection from the dead that form the foundation of our faith. It is not our subjective feeling about some false prophet or false scripture that is the basis. The Muslims have the same testimony about Muhammed that you have about Joe Smith. Does that make them objectively correct in their theology.

Since this is nontransmissible, one might dismiss it as irrelevant, an absolute beyond discussion, criticism, or demonstration.

If it is nontransmissible, then why do you LDS People continually fall back on it and try to use it as a justification for your belief in un-biblical and anti-Christian doctrines? If it is not transmissible, then why do you dedicate one Sunday service a month to having people trasnmit it by way of standing up at the service and giving their subjective testimony. If Nibley is right, then you ought to just forget the practice an move on. After all it is irrelevant.

People who lose their testimonies and renounce the Church or drop out of it, if they are convinced of their position, should be totally indifferent to the folly of their deluded one-time brethren and sisters.

That is the most illogical statement I have ever heard from any apologist for any religion. If you discover that the religion that your were brought up in is a fraud and that those who follow it are going to be doomed to an eternity in Hell, then the last thing you would do after leaving such a religion would be to be "indifferent to the folly of ther deluded brethren and sisters." That is utter nonsense. The first and last thing that you would do would be to warn those you love and care about that the path they are taking is leading them to an eternity in hell. Nibley has no idea of what he is even attempting to say here.

Apostates usually become sometimes feverishly active, determined to prove to the world and themselves that it is a fraud after all.

If a person apostocizes from the LDS Church and becomes a disbeliever in any religion whatsoever, then there would be a devil-may-care attitude in that person. The attitude would be that a deluded LDS person is no worse off than a deluded Catholic or Protestant. But if that person leaves the LDS Church and comes to a saving knoledge of Jesus Christ through a true Christian ministry, then the natural course of action for that person would be to shout from the rooftops about the error of the LDS Church in an attempt to dissuade as many potential converts as possible from drifting into an error which could cost them their eternal lives. Additionally such a person cannot sit still and let those whom he cares about who are trapped in that false religion to follow it to their graves and ultimately into the lake of eternal fire.

The Bottom line is that Nibley is a fool. He knows nothing of the motivations of those who leave the LDS Church becuase he refuses to face the fact that his church is built upon a foundation of quicksand.

***Apostates usually become sometimes feverishly active, determined to prove to the world and themselves that it is a fraud after all.***

Sounds like a noble endeavor! I never left Mormonism (I have no relatives who are LDS to my knowledge) and yet I see the value in exposing the fraud that underlies Mormonism.

Both P-Marlowe and I have other spiritual pursuits as well. Be thankful that we care enough about you to confront LDS error. Think of it as a spiritual intervention. :)

The Bottom line is that Nibley is a fool.

But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

If we're all destined for hell, it looks like we'll be in good company, Marlowe. Are you bringing the hot dogs, or are you in charge of the s'mores?

If we're all destined for hell, it looks like we'll be in good company, Marlowe. Are you bringing the hot dogs, or are you in charge of the s'mores?

I'LL BRING THE CHILE AND REDHOTS:)

Sounds like a noble endeavor!

Don Quixote was engaged in many a noble endeavor, as I recall.

I guess seeing the LDS Church go bye-bye will be your Impossible Dream.