Photo Review: Ecumenical 'Event' At Assisi

Diocese Report ^

[St.Chuck]

As a Catholic, you should know that the protocol is to openly profess your faith, and defend it. Not hide it.

OK

[Icthus]

OK Catholics....LIGHT YOUR FLAMES.....here it goes!

I'm not Catholic, so I don't know what kind of deal the Pope may have worked out with GOD {sarcasm}, but it seems as if he has blatantly condoned ignoring the first Commandment ("No other Gods"). To invite religious leaders of all the world's major religions into a Christian church, to pray for peace? Were these religious leaders praying to the one true GOD? I seriously doubt it.

1 Kings 18:21 Elijah went before the people and said, "How long will you waver between two opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal is God, follow him." But the people said nothing.

[Catholicguy]

The Novus Ordo Mass for starters.

The Mass remains unchanged since Holy Thursday. There have been changes in the Liturgy - many. The Mass is the action of Jesus offering Himself to God on our behalf through the Priesthood He established. He is both priest and victim There is nothin "novel" about the normative Mass. There have been changes in the Liturgy bu tthe Mass is the Mass is the Mass.

Care to try for another?

[B-Chan]

Scripture governs tradition.

Unlikely, since Scripture is a product of Tradition.

The Bible didn't just fall out of the sky; it was compiled and defined by men, acting in accordance with the Tradition passed down by word of mouth from the Apostles. The early Church, acting under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, defined the Canon of Scripture, keeping those things that agreed with the Traditions, omitting those writings that did not agree.

Thus was the Bible created. Without tradition to tell us which writings were inspired and which were not, there would be no Scripture. Therefore, your assertion cannot be correct.

Yours in Christian Fraternity,

B-chan

[drstevej]

B-C: The Bible didn't just fall out of the sky; it was compiled and defined by men, acting in accordance with the Tradition passed down by word of mouth from the Apostles.

Drj: All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work. - 2 Timothy 3:16-17

Thus was the Bible created. The books written under inspiration of God would be Scripture whether they were recognized or not.

Sincerely,

Steve

[Catholicguy]

The Mass remains unchanged since Holy Thursday Then why the animosity towards the Tridentine rite by the modernists? Who are the modernists? Do you consider me one?

Regarding novelities of the post concilliar era:

Communion in the hand

I personally have no problem with that. It was done in the early church. One can just as well claim it was a restoration. I think there are few places where receiving on the tongue is prohibited

altar girls Bishops are not forced to accept them. They choose for their Jurisdiction. I have been at Masses with altar girls and I haven't noticed a dimunition of Graces generated by the Perfect and Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Unless they were used at Conventual Masses previously, I guess this would be a "novelty." Ok, I accept the Pope was forced into making a concession on that point for a greater good. He repeatedly refused the AmBishops but relented to maintain as much unity as possible.

Extraordinary Eucharisitc Ministers (which are very often used in ordinary circumstances) I think they make sense as originally intended. Rome can't be blamed when it is not obeyed.

Lay people in the Sanctuary A layamn had never been in the Sanctuary previously? Do you mean EEM's or Lectors and Lectrix?

ripping out altar rails I have seen nothing from Rome requiring that. I like altar rails.

hiding tabernacles I have told you our Parish just returned it to the Sanctuary. Befriend the priest in your parish and work to resacralise your Church. My convert priest was trained to say the Second Eucharistic Prayer. We have had many discussions about many things and increasingly he says the Roman Canon. We have had many talks about Sacred Music. Changes already are happening at Mass. virtual abandonment of "Ecumenism of Return" Disgree. Goal same, route different. TONS of debris needed to be removed so the path home was traversible

common worship with non-Christians hasn't happened

redefining martyrdom (i.e. St. Maximillian Kolbe) I am not sure what you mean here. Do you mean number of miracles needed? When Martyrdom was first defined, did you object to that novelty?

The Ballamand Agreement Nothing novel about agreements enterned into with a long term goal in mind. Rome has patience

The Catholic Lutheran Accord Patent has linked to several explanantions that ought to address your displesasure with the agreement. I must be missing something here. You know that Trent invited protestants to dicuss anything they desired. They had been extended an invitation to debate any doctrine and to advance their view of it - during an Infallible Ecuemnical Council. Is that the sort of "novelty" that ought to be rejected? All of the above moves attempt to make Catholicism more like Protestantism. They are novel and go against tradition. They do no such thing. They might clear obstacles out of the path for some protetants desiring to reenter the Sheepgate and for that we ought to sing a Te Deum. The problem I have with your statement is that is "goes against tradition" is that I think you have a wrong idea of tradition and you, like me, have an insufficient amount of knowledge and expertise to judge Rome wrong. The Magisterium decides what is and isn't Tradition and what of "tradition" needs to be discarded to recall lost sheep - which, I know you agree, is FAR more important than keeping an altar rail intact.

[sitetest]

Dear Catholicguy,

Great post.

sitetest

[Catholicguy]

. My Random House dictionary defines worship as "reverent honor given to a deity". Weren't they praying for peace? Who were they praying to?

What does your Catechism say that Catholic worship is?

[Catholicguy]

Why do you defend all the changes I listed?

I just explained why I did why alatr girls is the only novelty I can see and I cited why the Pope was forced into that. Perhaps you think altar girls sufficient reason to formailise a schism?

[Catholicguy]

These are the fruits of the Vatican II revolution

I deny it was a revolution

[Catholicguy]

Thanks

[drstevej]

***I deny it was a revolution***
Would you prefer the term "Reformation"? :=)