Why I am a Calvinist

http://www.apuritansmind.com/TULIP/WhyIAmACalvinist.htm ^ | 7/27/02 | C. Matthew McMahon

[Polycarp]

No non-Catholic makes it to heaven?

You know I would never say this. Fr. Feeney was excommunicated for saying this.

I'm saying any believer has a better chance of final perseverance and eternal salvation in Christ's Church than a Church where only part of the Gospel is preached, admixed to varying degrees with grave error.

[drstevej]

You know my theology, Polycarp.

If I were to die right now am I hell bound? Purgatory bound? or Heaven bound?

[Polycarp]

***Calvinism has led to the loss of souls that would have made it to heaven were it not for him taking them from the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.***

You really mean this?

Yes. That part I sincerely believe. Calvin was not a saint. He did not return Christianity to any better understanding of scripture.

He reintroduced paganistic fatalism to the True Religion that had banished paganistic fatalism at the foot of the cross.

[Polycarp]

am I hell bound? Purgatory bound? or Heaven bound?

LOL! That is not for me to judge.

Knowing what I know about you, I'm confident that you are heaven bound!

Knowing what I don't know about you, I have no way of saying whether you might undergo some purgation of residual attraction to sin and the effects of sin.

Nothing impure enters heaven. Its not enough to be covered in His Blood, when underneath the corruption remains. The corruption simply cannot enter Christ's presence.

but don't worry. Like a comet approaching the Sun, trailing away its impurities as the heat and radiation from that Sun bears them away, your residual impurities will be burned away too before you come into full contact with the Beatific vision.

Its a simple idea. And its true.

[drstevej]

***Knowing what I know about you, I'm confident that you are heaven bound!***

I appreciate the vote of confidence (not that human votes of confidence count :-)... However, you know:

- I am a Calvinist (Amyraldian flavor)
- I do not embrace the Real Presence doctrine
- I believe Jesus died for me and I have trusted in what He did on Calvary alone as the full payment for my sins.

Would this make you reassess my potential destiny?

[Wrigley]

Knowing what I don't know about you, I have no way of saying whether you might undergo some purgation of residual attraction to sin and the effects of sin.

Interesting. Didn't Christ complete the job on the cross. When He said, "It is finished", did he mistate and actually mean, "It is almost finished, but you might have to do some time in purgatory to seal the deal?"

[Tantumergo]

You really mean this? No non-Catholic makes it to heaven?

It becomes very difficult to make it to heaven if you reject the means of salvation - the Sacramental oaths - that Christ has given us to incorporate us into the New Covenant:

John 6:54 "dixit ergo eis Jesus amen amen dico vobis nisi manducaveritis carnem Filii hominis et biberitis ejus sanguinem non habetis vitam in vobis"

[drstevej]

I forgot to mention that I am a Houston Astros fan (whiich means I'll never celebrate a World Series).

:-)

[drstevej]

***It becomes very difficult to make it to heaven if you reject the means of salvation***

Don't you mean IMPOSSIBLE? (from your frame of reference that is)

[Wrigley]

But they won today. And if the Cubs win tonight, the Cubs will only be a game out of forth place.

Hey, when your either a Cub or Astro fan you have to take your joy in different places.

[Tantumergo]

"It is finished" refers to the completion of his Paschal sacrifice after he had drunk the "fourth cup" of the Haggadah i.e. the sour wine that they gave him to drink on the cross.

His work of redemption could not have been completed at this point as he hadn't yet risen.

What Polycarp may be referring to is St. Paul's teaching on purgatory in 1 Cor 3:13-15:

13 Every man's work shall be manifest; for the day of the Lord shall declare it, because it shall be revealed in fire; and the fire shall try every man's work, of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide, which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.

[drstevej]

***St. Paul's teaching on purgatory in 1 Cor 3:13-15***

Wasn't aware Paul ever uses the term purgatory. Reference?

[Tantumergo]

I don't mean IMPOSSIBLE because I believe that the bible is inerrant:


Romans 2:5 But according to thy hardness and impenitent heart, thou treasurest up to thyself wrath, against the day of wrath, and revelation of the just judgment of God.
6 Who will render to every man according to his works.
7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life:
8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation.

Romans 2:13 For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14 For when the Gentiles, who have not the law, do by nature those things that are of the law; these having not the law are a law to themselves:
15 Who shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness to them, and their thoughts between themselves accusing, or also defending one another,
16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.


However when Christ gives us the means to salvation, as revealed in the scriptures, and we choose to reject those means, preferring rather the traditions of men such as Calvin and Luther, then we can hardly be said to be working out our salvation in fear and trembling as St. Paul admonishes the Philipians so to do:


2:12 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, (as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but much more now in my absence,) with fear and trembling work out your salvation.

[drstevej]

Next verse...
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

[RnMomof7]

Rev posted a piece the other day that showed Wesley believed the Pope to be the antichrist.

yea and he belived the King to be the pope...

[restornu]

CAN SOME ONE ANSWER MY QUESTION?

Now I have a question Thank you a lot but where is Calvin? and how did his doctrine get into the Prebyterian Church?

[Tantumergo]

He never uses the term "Trinity" but he still believed in the reality of it.

"Purgatory" is simply a word that the Church has used historically to give a name to the purifying fire of God's love that St. Paul is referring to. It is God's mercy that He will purify our souls of the effects of sin in order that we can enter into His presence. Although there are some sins that cannot be "purged" in the next life as Our Lord has taught us:

Matthew 12:32 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but he that shall speak against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, nor in the world to come.

[Codie]

What is the doctrine of "the middle state"?

[RnMomof7]

I do not believe that Calvin formed a church. He was a theologian  . He studied and wrote. His work influenced the reformation and John Knox

[RnMomof7]

That's why I'm a Calvinist.

Luther, Calvin, Wesley, Pope Leo X, Pope Pius XII and Pope John Paul II are all men, fallible and fallen.

Christ is the only infallibility; God's grace our only salvation.

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You do have a way with words...thank you