Posted on 07/25/2002 7:23:40 AM PDT by xzins
-- Pope Xzins, ex cathedra
I had thought about trying to catch you sermonize if schedule permitted. Are you always in the pulpit or do you rotate with other/others?
nope, brother xzins, ex biblia.
Kindness, DrJ, you're 'sposed to have a :-) after those kinds of posts.
In fact, regeneration is applied by God's Spirit prior to the offer of salvation. That grace makes the individual able and willing to believe or accept the offer. Romans teaches that by nature no one seeketh after God. By nature, no one wants to be saved. Hence, no one can accept the offer of salvation unless they are regenerated and made willing to accept the offer. A salvation that can be accepted or rejected by a sinner is a salvation that is earned. This is so because it is predicated on the autonomous ability to accept the offer. Grace that is earned thereby is not grace.
A dollar bill that is rejected is still a dollar bill bill. But grace that is earned is not grace. If there was something in the person that gave them the power to accept the offer, then salvation would be predicated on the inherent ability to accept that offer. Salvation would be based on something meritorious in the individual. Hence, the gift would no longer be of grace.
You raise a curious and clever argument. Unfortunately, you are slipping dangerously into pelagianism. Be careful my friend.
Irrevelent ...Jesus gave that 100 dollar bill to the banker for your debt...it was marked paid in full...
So will the JUST God demand to burn in hell for an unpaid bill that his son already paid?
There are lots of folks that think they have saved themselves..to them Jesus says
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Would you point me to your "God is my co pilot" scripture?
Your post assumes the philosophical argument that guides calvinism and then uses it to justify irresistible grace.
The above post presents the bible information on times when grace has been resisted and then builds a doctrine.
So the cross accomplished nothing? It was only a bid on your soul? ...Going once going twice...oppps withdrawn from the auction?
I thought the debt was paid at the cross..do you have scripture to say it was not?
This evening our family read Psalm 11. In that Psalm, God is described as having eyes and eyelids. Other scriptures refer to the arms or hands of God. John 4 clearly teaches that God is a spirit and hence does not have a body like men. Which is true? There is an apparent contradiction. But we know that the Bible is consistent.
You read and cite scripture that supports what appears to be a teaching that God's grace can be resisted. However, we must interpret those verses you cite in light of other verses. You mention individuals rejected God and would have appeared to have successfully rejected his grace.
In Romans 9, Paul specifically deals with the issue of God's sovereignty in salvation. In v. 14 Paul says, "Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid." v. 15 ...but I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I ill have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth of him that runneth, but of God who shows mercy." In other words, one cannot become a child of God relying on the strength of their will.
v.18 "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy and whom he will hardeneth." Wait a minute. My...you mean God actually hardens the hearts of men? And he has compassion only on those whom he wills? Yes. As a result some men will reject God, just as Pharoah actually rejected the pleas of Moses and Aaron. But who actually hardened his heart? Check Exodus and you will find that God did. And hence, we touch one of the greatest of mysteries. God hardens the heart of men, yet those men still remain absolutely responsible for his sin. Conversely, all those whom God has chosen will be saved. Romans 8:30 says "For whom he did predestinate, them he also called (called through the preaching of the gospel):and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." There is no hint here that anyone chosen by God will be able to successfully resist Him.
Let's also look at John 6:37 and 39. "All that the Father hath given me shall come to me; and him that cometh unto me I will in no wise cast out." "And this is the father's will which he hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."
The scripture says that all that the Father hath given unto the Son in the covenant of redemption will effectually come unto the Son. That leaves no room for being able to successfully resist the grace of God. All those given unto the Son in the predestinating grace of God, will ultimately come unto the Son. This is reinforced in v. 39 when the Lord states that of all that the Father hath given unto the Son, he would lose nothing. No room for being able to successfully resist the grace of God.
The only remaining question is whether those who are not predestinated actually receive a full free and unfettered offer of Christ in the gospel. That is a very difficult question, but the answer is yes. They receive a genuine offer but they are unwilling to receive that offer due to the fact that they are dead in their sins. And they are dead in their sins due to their own depravity and sinfulness. They only difference between the saved and the unsaved person is that God in his mercy willed that one would be a vessel of honor and the other a vessel of dishonor. The vessel of dishonor, however, has no claim of unrighteousness against God. Romans 9:20: Shall the thing formed say unto him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? v.21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel of honor and another unto dishonor. All this is that he might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy which he hath prepared unto glory. v. 23.
Therefore, the elect person will never be able to resist the will of God. The non-elect God has no compassion on, he actually hardens his heart as he rejects God. And in the end that condemned soul has no complaint against God for making him the way he is because God is absolutely sovereign in predestination to show mercy on whom He wills.
Arminians and pelagians will try to pull the threads of these doctrines apart. But that cannot be done. The gospel is an interdependent whole. Similarly, the Bible presents a complete tapestry of God's grace that cannot be picked apart according to our whim.
May God bless you.
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