Posted on 07/25/2002 7:23:40 AM PDT by xzins
It is not a free gift by your rekoning..it must be purchase by man generating faith to believe..so those of us that are saved are better and brighter and have a stronger constitution than those that do not.
God is very lucky we are so clever because if we were too dumb to choose correctly could be that NO ONE would have been saved on the cross. Think of that all the planning God did. All the pain Christ suffered for us ..all for nothing
Mans choice...the part of the mixture that God sweats over....."please come oh man god ..please come". "I need you "finish what I could not do in my own power and strength"
we need new words for this song
Calvinists want to try? HERE the Arminians need some new words to fit their doctrine..HELP
Mans intelligence + mans holiness +mans choice + grace =salvation
God is so lucky to have us
Hank has terms he won't use because they aren't terms used in the bible. I wonder if "original sin" is not one of those theological terms he won't use because it doesn't appear in the bible. (He doesn't use the term "trinity" either....because it's a man-made term.)
Is that true, Hank?
And that is all it takes to have a church full of tares..you lack discernment xzins..
Belief never saved anyone..
The object of the belief is what saves.Jesus Christ
He believes in Jesus and is a firm bible Christian.
His denial of original sin puts him in line with the Muslims and Mormons
You do not even recognise a heresy when you hear it...how do you shepherd your flock? "The Pelagian Heresy.
Just more "Rn, the Attack Yorkie" stuff. Yaps at your heels, but only weighs 6 pounds.
I believe "atonement sufficient for all, effective for believers only"
Me too..those appointed to believe will believe 100% of the time. Gods grace and purpose never fail
Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
What I need to know from you is why God would develop a plan of salvation that does not guarantee anyones salvation? Christ may have died in vain
No one was saved at the cross you preach, no one has a personl savior..you demand a work from them to get the "free gift"
very inconsitant xzins
"Rn, the attack Yorkie, strikes again." Friendly little yapper at a mere featherweight of seriousness. No danger whatsoever.
Acts 18:4, 8 ..... "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. And Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized."
Paul persuaded Crispus. Crispus believed. Crispus was baptized as sign of a regeneration that occurred after he believed.
After persuasion, the proper order is. (1) Believe (2) Be born again. (3) Be baptized. All of this is the work of God.
I believe "atonement sufficient for all, effective for believers only"
Now, if you are going to reject clear scripture there is nothing further to discuss.
Faith is not a work (Rom.4:4-5) and we are commanded to obey God and believe (1Jn.3:23)
That is what Scripture teaches whether your 'system' likes it or not!
God is very lucky we are so clever because if we were too dumb to choose correctly could be that NO ONE would have been saved on the cross. Think of that all the planning God did. All the pain Christ suffered for us ..all for nothing
Blah,Blah, Blah! Obedience is what we are suppose to do!(Lk.17)
So when you obey God and do not sin, do you pat yourself on the back and say what a great person you are!
Mans choice...the part of the mixture that God sweats over....."please come oh man god ..please come". "I need you "finish what I could not do in my own power and strength"
What Christ does say is Ho, every one that thirsteth come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money come ye, buy, and eat, yea, come buy wine and milk without money and without price....If man thirst, let him come unto me and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water (Isa.55:1,Jn.7:37-38)
we need new words for this song Calvinists want to try? HERE the Arminians need some new words to fit their doctrine..HELP Mans intelligence + mans holiness +mans choice + grace =salvation God is so lucky to have us
My how pious you sound (Lk.18!) Despite what scripture teaches that man is only obeying when he believes (Jn.6:29,1Jn.3:23) and thus, cannot claim any credit for his own salvation, since it is all grace.
What Calvinists teach is that somehow and for no reason God picked YOU and left someone in the same sins to go to hell.
Oh, He could have saved them, but chose not to!
But let us not think of these things, even though that is what Calvinism takes great pride in, God's hatred for mankind for their sinful state (how did they get that way? Oh, thats right God Decreed it, almost forgot-but He is not the author of sin, He just made sure that Adam could not sin-Uh! Wait-Rom.9:20!)
Now, I preceive you are caught in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of inquity' and need to repent of these wicked thoughts you have against the Person of God!
Good question! Why did not God elect everyone to salvaton either?
Thus, it would seem that God wanted a choice to be made, which is what love is about, choosing for or against someone.
But what does what Love have to do with dead, dry, godless Calvinism.
Christ may have died in vain No one was saved at the cross you preach, no one has a personl savior..you demand a work from them to get the "free gift" very inconsitant xzins
Note, the word 'may' since it is clear that He didn't die in vain now did He?
Another stupid Calvinistic philosophical 'problem' that doesn't exist except in the minds of those who reject reality and scriptures.
quite the contrary he has laid out the plan of salvation very clearly. He has stated that one is exposed to prevenient grace, one either responds or rejects that grace, if one responds and believes then one is regenerated and becomes a child of God (Jn.1:12)
I think that is simple enough.
I tried to get him to say that and all he talked about was belief. (he thinks Hank is saved..He wants hank in his church..hand denies original sin..
'Hank' may deny Original sin, but he does not deny (as far as I know) that man is a sinner and needs a saviour.
The theological implications as regarding salvation would have to do with more if Hank believes one can work for his salvation and not just believe in Christ as his personal saviour. The key issue in Original sin is that it makes all helpless and needing the Second Adam to get us out of the mess we are in due to the 1st.(Rom.5)
Nope doctrine is not a big deal to xzins
LOL! You mean Calvnistic doctrine!
Mat 5:11 Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Acts 18:4, 8 ..... "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath (1) and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks. And Crispus, the leader of the synagogue, believed (2) in the Lord with all his household, and many of the Corinthians when they heard were believing and being baptized."
Paul persuaded Crispus. Crispus believed. Crispus was baptized as sign of a regeneration that occurred after he believed.
Am I supposed to have a problem with that ? After persuasion, the proper order is. (1) Believe (2) Be born again. (3) Be baptized. All of this is the work of God.
Could you show me where it says he was born again after he was pursuaded? I think you are doing what arminains do best..reading their doctrine in where it does not exist
It says he was pursuaded and then he believed.
Jesus said that unles a man be born again he can not see
Have you ever tried to persuade a dead man to see?
Main Entry: per·suade Pronunciation: p&r-'swAd Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): per·suad·ed; per·suad·ing Etymology: Latin persuadEre, from per- thoroughly + suadEre to advise, urge -- more at SWEET Date: 15th century 1 : to move by argument, entreaty, or expostulation to a belief, position, or course of action 2 : to plead with : URGE
Paul is an Arminian preacher, providing documentation, pleading with the congregation to believe.
Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;
And like Peter
1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
And John
2Jo1:1 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth;
xzins you have such a hard time understandsing that Calvinists believe it is our job to press the Gospel..to make a free offer of it..Just as Paul did
We just know that God has predestined the moment and the outcome by changing the persons heart .
You will not hear a Calvinist brag about how many people he saved (like you hear Arminians) We know who saves..we know who prepared the soil, we know who decided where the seed would fall..we know who makes it grow...and it ain't us:>)
What is a Christian. Is a Coptic a Christian, a Roman Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Adventist, Mormon? You may not call them Christians, but what do they call themselves. Is anyone who calls themselves a Christian a Christian? Is there one verse in the Bible that says you are supposed to be a Christian?
Was Stephen a Christian? Would you have refused fellowship with him? (Compare: Acts 7:59-60 with Ac 11:26)
Mat 9:10 And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with him and his disciples. And when the [Calvinists] saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners? But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the [doctrinally correct], but sinners to repentance.
Calvinists are todays Pharisees. As in Jesus day, sinners a blessed if the Calvinists avoid them. Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, [theologians and Calvinists], hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Hank
No, no, no, you misunderstand. A covering for sin has been provided, which allows God to justly forgive the sins of all those who accept the pardon God has extended. It does not require God to forgive those who continue to rebel against Him.
I thought you believed in the Sovereignty of God. Nothing requires God to do anything. If God chooses not to forgive those who do not accept the free gift (and only means of reconciliation) He has offered, who are you to question God's right to do that?
Hank
But your doctrinal stand is out side the Christian creed..
It is a heresy that was rejected by the church ...
We have to stay mindful of that
I am not telling you anything you do not know..
I do not pray with cult members....I can share some small talk..or debate doctrine
If you choose to pray with them be my guest
Paul stated quite clearly that he would not suffer a woman to preach or to exercise authority over a man. But the Methodist chruch routinely ordains women. We can infer from this the Methodist church has little regard for the word of God.
The Methodist Church no longer holds to the Biblical account of creation contained in Genesis 1 and 2. We can infer from this that the Methodist chruch has little regard for the revealed word of God.
Let's see. I think you get the idea. xzins is a Wesleyan Arminian and the Methodists, who are wesleyan Arminians take a number of positions that are clearly anti-biblical. If they are wrong about these and so many other issues concerning morality and proper church polity, why should we ever believe that they would by extension have absolutely no credibility on the issues closely pertaining to salvation.
By the way, isn't it cute how xzins is now playing the martyr card?
This is interesting. Something that I didn't know, but when you look at how they read the Bible, it doesn't surprise me. Can you point me in the direction where I can read about this?
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