The Society Of St Pius X - Further Negotiations with Rome

June/July Newsletter of the SSPX in Great Britain | June/July 2002

[FBDinNJ]

That's definitely true. I've been subjected to some quite awful bursts of anger by a Benedictine Priest when I expressed my interest in the Latin mass to him.

[american colleen]

I agree with you HM-BA. The Latin Mass is tough to come by in most places. I live within the Archdiocese of Boston and there is only one Latin Mass available (and it is not widely known about) - and we are in a very large Catholic area.

I'm not sure why the Cardinals are rather miserly with the Latin Mass, but I do think it is an important part of our Catholic heritage that would be terribly sad to lose altogether. It may be somewhat of a logistical problem? In a lot, if not most, Catholic churches, the altar rails have been taken out and the Tabernacle is no longer on the center altar.

[Dajjal]

If you read the history of the Novus Ordo, you find that the Traditional Mass was simply "elbowed" out without ever being formally abrogated. (How could the Church outlaw a Mass of over 1500 years of tradition?) Nonetheless, bishops told priests that they could no longer say this liturgy. Most priests think that it has been outlawed except in special indult cases. But legally, any priest ordained in the Roman Rite, with faculties, ought to be able to say this liturgy of the Roman Rite.

When Rome approached the SSPX for reconciliation, the SSPX bishops said that one condition for their return is that Rome acknowledge that every Roman priest has the right to say this Mass. Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos agreed that they do have the right, but hedged that the Vatican could say so.

Why not? One reason would be that it would mean admitting some duplicity when they have told priests since 1969 that they could not say this Mass, or could say it only under special conditions. Another reason would be that bureaucrats dislike trouble, and they can anticipate that an eruption of fervor would break out if every Roman priest could freely choose which of the Roman liturgies he would say. They would rather have all of those priests in lockstep, even though their rights are curtailed. Another reason is that they would claim that permitting both Masses would cause "confusion" among the laity. (But they don't mind the laity being confused when it suits their purposes.)

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

Hey, I merely mentioned once in conversation(at the Jesuit university I attended) that I liked aspects of the Mass in Latin and this lib prof. began spreading the rumor I was an SSPX schismatic (entirely untrue). These types are ruthless kooks. I can only attribute these emotional outbursts to the Devil's interest in disturbing Catholic worship and sacramental life. No secret why that should be troubling to the Prince of Darkness.

[narses]

That has happened here. Me, I think if the Tridentine Rite becomes widely available, there will be an enormous schism in the Church as the liberals leave. That is the danger the SSPX represents to Rome.

[narses]

Remember the heat I took for suggesting the following might be true?

His Lordship then outlined Cardinal Castrillon's announcement, in a letter to the President of Una Voce, Mr Michael Davies, that the "Indult" priests would now have to adopt the 1965 rubrics, involving a radical modification of the ceremonies of the Mass, the introduction of bidding prayers, the suppression of the Last Gospel and the introduction of new liturgical calendar. Indirectly, the Cardinal implied that it is henceforth prohibited for a priest to refuse Communion in the hand at an Indult Mass.

[Domestic Church]

"I'd certainly rather have you folks aboard than our "Call to Action" Catholic liberals."

Ditto!

Prayer Bump!

[Domestic Church]

"That's definitely true. I've been subjected to some quite awful bursts of anger by a Benedictine Priest when I expressed my interest in the Latin mass to him."

I've seen this myself and many in the Catholic HSing community have been embattled with DREs over this sort of thing.

It doesn't make any sense unless those liberals have thrown anything preconsiliar out the mental window...in which case are they Catholic?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

If the Mass in Latin were merely one option (among others
including NewAgey folk Masses in English), it would seem ridiculous for any liberal to leave. If they can't stand the thought that somewhere someone might be enjoying a Mass in Latin, they are not very good Catholic Christians anyway.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

There is just no reason why the Last Gospel has to be removed from Tridentine Masses. That's ridiculous.

Why would someone want this (from a Catholic point of view)? I always liked that part.

[narses]

Why take away any of the traditions? Why indeed?

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I would really like to hear a logical explanation which definitively establishes that the optional and/or occasional offering of the Mass in Latin (in the old, traditional, Tridentine style) is bad, harmful, or negative for the spiritual life of the Church? Does that mean that an Orthodox liturgy in Greek is also bad? A Russian Orthodox liturgy in Slavonic? A Jewish Temple service in Hebrew? Are thay all bad too, or is it just Latin? Or just Latin in the Tridentine style? Does that mean our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents, etc., were all "bad" Catholics? Cardinal Newman was a "bad" Catholic? Would he really have been better if he said Mass accompanied by music from Godspell, Jesus Christ, Superstar, the St. Louis Jesuits, and Enneagram-hypnotized folk guitarists? Does anyone REALLY believe that? My guess is that if the early Jesuits had started out in the style currently prominent in their ranks, there'd be NO Jesuits now. When the Catholic Church becomes just another mediocre, relativistic Protestant denomination, who is going to make any sacrifices to dedicate their lives to that?

[Sock]

I believe this is Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos' letter.

The Last Gospel is said at the Tridentine Mass that I attend. There are no "bidding prayers", the old Roman calendar is followed and I've never seen nor do I desire to see an " altar girl." I am not aware if anyone receives the Blessed Sacrament in the hand (although I doubt it). I permit no distractions during those few minutes when the Lord is sacramentally present within me.

[topher]

Some of the things in this article are propaganda.

Pope John Paul ex-communicated the late Archbishop of SSPX for disobedience in ordaining two bishops in DIRECT DEFIANCE OF THE VATICAN.

The late Archbishop always held that he was right and Pope John Paul II was wrong -- including about Vatican II.

One must remember the source of this news letter and understand Canon Law. I do have a friend who will be ordained priest on Saturday who has studied at the Vatican and has studied Vatican law (though he is not an expert.

I guess if any of the late Archbishop's priests would have disobeyed him (as he disobeyed Pope John Paul II), he probably would have kicked them out of SSPX.

[topher]

There is a Tridentine Mass by a parish that IS NOT SSPX but part of the Archdiocese of Atlanta that is similar to what you are describing.

There are rules in SSPX that were not there before Vatican II. For example, the priest who is pastor at St Michael's (SSPX church) in the Los Angeles will not give communion to those he does not know unless they meet with him before Mass. (That was never a requirement of the Tridentine Mass).

Further, I did query EWTN about the status of SSPX, because of family members attending.

Basically, communion is valid in this church (SSPX) and confessions (if in danger of death) are valid. I don't know what sacraments are not valid.

I think the biggest SNAFU with Canon law is that the bishops that are in control are ex-communicated and were not approved to be ordained by Pope John Paul II, and the late Archbishop is dead.

[topher]

The SSPX is proximate to heresy in the area of the Council's teachings on religious liberty, but this can be worked out. It is also proximate to heresy in regard to the nature of the ordinary and extraordinary natures of the magisterium (almost identical to NCR liberals in the latter), etc.

But the SSPX is showing positive signs of wanting to work things out. The majority of their bishops anyway.

The SSPX in Brazil has rejoined the Catholic Church. And in the 1990's many of the priests of the SSPX left to re-join the Catholic Church as part of the Fraternal order of St Peter.

There some very positive aspects of the SSPX, as you say.

What does NCR stand for?

[Sock]

NCR