Vatican Approves Hula Masses

Catholic Family News ^ | March 1999 | John Vennari

[patent]

The reason I asked that was because in ELS' #29 there were a number of thoughts and quotes from your church's past that led me to believe that taking the Host in an unconsecrated hand had been considered sacrilege at one point in time.

Thanks for the clarification. I don’t believe, though I could well be wrong, that they considered taking it in the hand sacrilege. What I understand the concern to have been was that, by taking it in their hand, people could then walk away and put in their pocket, take it home, and use it for sacrilegious purposes. Satanic rituals sometimes seek to use the Eucharist, for one extreme example.

patent  +AMDG

[narses]

So the inquisition is out in force today. My Parish has both a Tridentine and a N.O. Mass. Where it is is none of your business frankly. Your "clarification" was an apparent attempt to brand me and be able to run about claiming I am what I am not. Why must you try and do that? What, exactly, are you claiming I am doing that is "wrong"?

[patent]

Where it is is none of your business frankly.

Don’t care where, my interest is whether it is fully subject to the local Ordinary in communion with Rome.

Your "clarification" was an apparent attempt to brand me and be able to run about claiming I am what I am not.

So now you are reading my mind? Interesting.

Why must you try and do that? What, exactly, are you claiming I am doing that is "wrong"?

I think I’ve made that clear.

patent  +AMDG

[patent]

So the inquisition is out in force today.

By the way, I’m curious. Does the name calling advance your point of view somehow? What is the benefit of that?

patent  +AMDG

[narses]

LOL -- pot meet kettle. You insisted on ascribing motives to me and insisting on KNOWING that I attend a Mass you approve of. If the shoe fits, as they say.

[narses]

PS Since you clearly perceive my comments as antagonistic and they certainly have been, at least, defensive and may well be misinterpreted, let my apologize for any offense you may take from them. My suggestion is that we not pick at each other and instead try and learn from each other. I admit I appear to be the major beneficiary, as your knowledge appears greater than mine. In plain latin, Pax.

[patent]

>>>LOL -- pot meet kettle.

I do wear black. Goes with the profession, unfortunately.

>>>>>My suggestion is that we not pick at each other and instead try and learn from each other.

Agreed, God bless,

patent

[narses]

You're an undertaker? :)

[patent]

Attorney, same difference. Most of my suits and shoes are black or grey, some blue suits thrown in for good measure.

[narses]

Very similar. :)

[ELS]

Do you attend an indult or an independent?

Both. Perhaps you remember this thread about the indult Mass.

You and narses have engaged in a consistent pattern of blowing my words up to mean more than they do, despite explicit denials on my part.

And you have been doing the same thing to my words. I agree it is very frustrating.

1) Now, I’m starting to expect you to say you weren’t talking about penance, but you did ask a global question again,

I did not ask a global question. We have been talking about one subject and my question was directly related to the subject. I was not asking about all disciplines. You have been vaguely implying that I am being disobedient and I have been trying to find out from you more explicitly what you mean.

The answer, IMHO, is different depending on the different discipline.

Now you're catching on. So, why answer the question regarding one specific discipline with respect to another discipline?

2) Why did you include #6 from Vatican I if you are not questioning my allegiance to Peter's successor? How am I supposed to interpret this?

3) "complain bitterly", "loudly criticizing", "rejection of communion in the hand"

These are your characterizations of my postition. I made one statement early on that I thought was quite clear (that wasn't bitter, loud, or rejecting) and you are the one who has made a fuss over it. I suggest you remove the plank from your own eye while pointing out my "posting [my] disagreement on a public website." If the matter had been left alone, I think most readers would have passed right by it.

He is the greatest of the doctors, but he is not infallibly protected the way Trent’s formal pronouncements are.

I didn't claim that he was infallible. However, as I mentioned earlier, his Summa Theologica is considered a great defense of the Faith and part of the Magisterium. While being named a Doctor does not imply personal infallibility from error, it does say that the "eminent doctrine" of said Doctor is worthy of being used as official Church teaching (Magisterium).

Dominus Vobiscum

Et cum spiritu tuo.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I am beginning to suspect you are not a real Catholic. You just served up another off-topic ad hominem. The toilet reference reveals your true cards. "Constant change" huh? You've been reading to many Heraclitus-inspired comicbooks, no doubt. :) Comments like those above must be from a casualty of mass, secular public education where the ideology of unending progress is presented by subliterate state functionaries. Real Catholicism requires no submission to such unending progress. Too bad. Prozac won't cure illiteracy.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

The only constant in life is change

We have someone with an obsessional ad hominem fetish patrolling the Catholic threads who thinks the declaration "the only constant in life is change" makes a good guiding principle for Catholic worship and sacramental life. I really want to know where such outrages are being taught so I can write a letter complaining. Is it possible...Rembert Weakland is surfing the Catholic threads on FR incognito???

[ELS]

LOL! I considered responding to jackd, but I decided against it. If eternal truths change, I guess they weren't really eternal or true.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

One of the more wobbly ontological propositions of progressive liberalism regularly lampooned by conservatives. For instance, right from Russell Kirk's famous "Six Canons of Conservative Thought":

"Recognition that change may not be salutary reform: hasty innovation may be a devouring conflagration, rather than a torch of progress."

Or to quote another famous conservative, Mr. Hand from Fast Times at Ridgemont High, "Learn it, live it, love it."

http://www.townhall.com/hall_of_fame/kirk/kirkhome.html

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Part of me thinks that now he's been outed, old Rembert is clad in leather hopping gay bars. Wouldn't surprise me to find out he was on the Danube watching those Betty's get "ordained", either.

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

I don't understand why, if they want to be openly gay and swingingly sodomite,
they don't just embrace some non-priestly profession like being waiters or restaurant managers in South Beach or SF.
Granted, less political clout there than in a pulpit.

[Dajjal]

We have someone with an obsessional ad hominem fetish patrolling the Catholic threads who thinks the declaration "the only constant in life is change" makes a good guiding principle for Catholic worship and sacramental life. I really want to know where such outrages are being taught so I can write a letter complaining.

Perhaps it's the ghost of Yves Congar -- "the Catholic Church has no Tradition, just a myriad of evolving traditions."

[HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity]

And all this time I thought Novus Ordoistas were trying to "get back" to the second-century A.D. simplicity of the "early primitive Church." They need to make up their minds.

[nickcarraway]

Just one point: what you are describing isn't mentioned anywhere in Vatican II. Just to be precise.