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The cross: A symbol, but of what?
AP via Providence Journal ^
| 3/16/02
| RICHARD N. OSTLING
Posted on 03/16/2002 6:42:19 AM PST by LarryLied
click here to read article
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To: billbears
Yep!!--more secular humanism drivel from mind-numbed robotic socialist. Those idiots are going to be clueless when you and I are floating up in the air on our way to a nice little meal :)
21
posted on
03/16/2002 8:53:50 AM PST
by
Ff--150
To: RnMomof7; solagracia;OrthodoxPresbyterian; JenB; Thinkin' Gal; Jerry_M; BibChr
Apostates offended by the cross-- what a suprise.
17 ¶ For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
19 For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
--I Corinthians 1:18-25
What's next? The "Buddy Jesus"? A non-threatening Jesus Christ who is more Santa Claus than Sovereign Judge?
22
posted on
03/16/2002 9:06:37 AM PST
by
jude24
To: RnMomof7
And you think you have troubles over at the other thread..
23
posted on
03/16/2002 9:10:29 AM PST
by
Wrigley
To: JCG
1 ¶ But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come:
2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud,
blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful,
unholy,
< snip >
5
having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of
gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts,
7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
9 but they will progress no further, for their folly will be manifest to all, as theirs also was.
-- II Timothy 3:1-2, 5-9
24
posted on
03/16/2002 9:10:30 AM PST
by
jude24
To: the_doc
Have at it :-) ...
25
posted on
03/16/2002 9:11:19 AM PST
by
jude24
To: jude24
"And can it be that Oh My God would die for me?"
There is not one worthy no not one!
26
posted on
03/16/2002 9:18:38 AM PST
by
RnMomof7
To: RnMomof7
the Cross is the symbol of what it cost God to save my sorry butt - - for that I'm eternally grateful!
27
posted on
03/16/2002 9:27:17 AM PST
by
duckbutt
To: jude24; OrthodoxPresbyterian; RnMomof7
In the article, we are evidently looking at three non-Christians who have persuaded themselves (not to mention a few others) that they are Christians. Maybe God will jerk the slack out of them, but things don't look too good for them at this point.
Brock, Parker, and Crossan are all semi-Pelagians or worse. Brock comes from the Campbellite tradition (which denies original sin altogether); Parker comes from the Wesleyan-Arminian tradition (which claims that the depravity inherent in original sin is neutralized by universal prevenient grace); and Crossan comes from the Romanist position which assumes that, whatever original sin is, it is easily washed away by holy water.
A little Reformed theology would be helpful to the author of the article, I think.
28
posted on
03/16/2002 9:46:11 AM PST
by
the_doc
To: duckbutt
Amen
29
posted on
03/16/2002 9:49:59 AM PST
by
Wrigley
To: the_doc
I think what we're looking at are "country-club christians." They like the trappings of Christianity -- the moral framework (but even that, they dont accept completely), the fraternity, and the spirituality. But they've accepted a parody of the gospel. And, sickeningly, too many churches will espouse this bilge without blinking.
30
posted on
03/16/2002 9:50:57 AM PST
by
jude24
To: jude24
Yeah, and I am alarmed to see how much the bad doctrine of professing Christianity gives them cover.
(I don't write off all Campbellites, Wesleyans, and RCs, but I would point out that Reformed believers would never fall into the trap of contempt which the three liberals in the article have displayed for the Cross of Christ.)
31
posted on
03/16/2002 9:58:20 AM PST
by
the_doc
To: Fzob
32
posted on
03/16/2002 10:09:24 AM PST
by
JZoback
To: jude24
What's next? The "Buddy Jesus"? A non-threatening Jesus Christ who is more Santa Claus than Sovereign Judge? What do you mean "next"? (c;
Dan
How to Make Your Very Own Jesus
33
posted on
03/16/2002 12:11:33 PM PST
by
BibChr
To: EternalVigilance
'Liberal' churches are the source of much of the socialism that has degraded and eroded the foundation of our republic. Started way back too. Puritans became Congregationalists and Unitarians. When, in the mid 1830's, those two congregations lost their ability to tax (in Massachusetts), they used the state as a proxy for their theology.Unitarians ran Harvard for decades. Jefferson, Millard Fillmore, John and ohn Quincy Adams were Unitarians. The church was very powerful and became more secular every year. Puritans used the church to exercise control over individuals;Neo-Puritans used the state.
Four Unitarian US presidents in 50 years was a start but no social movement gains great sucess until women are on board. And from the early 1800's on, prominent women were in the liberal churches. Beatrix Potter,Fannie Farmer,Mary Wollstonecraft,Dorothea Dix,Sophia Hawthorne (married to Nathaniel Hawthorne),Julia Ward Howe (wrote lyrics to the Battle Hymn of the Republic),Florence Nightingale,Clara Barton,Elizabeth Cabot Cary Agassiz (first President of Radicliff College),Charlotte Eliot (T.S. Eliot's mother) and Carrie Catt (founder of the League of Women Voters) were all Unitarians.
What the founders did not see when they prevented a national religion is that the state would become a national religion. Liberals of today are really Neo-Puritans.
To: billbears
"
God works miracles, they don't."
How true! The cross is a symbol of love.
35
posted on
03/17/2002 6:35:24 AM PST
by
4CJ
To: Ff--150
"
Those idiots are going to be clueless when you and I are floating up in the air on our way to a nice little meal :)"
Not to disagree - I think they're clueless NOW. When we disappear I think that reality will settle in. I'm glad I won't be there ;o)
36
posted on
03/17/2002 6:38:22 AM PST
by
4CJ
To: 4ConservativeJustices; Ff-150
We had a visiting preacher this morning and he covered this very subject. He talked about how some of these TV preachers and other evangelists in the public eye will come right up to the subject but not cross over into it for fear of offending and losing viewership or worse look bad in the eyes of men instead of God. There is one and only one way to God. Either Christ was right that He was THE way and every other religious belief is wrong or else He was wrong and there's no use in going to church anymore and there's no hope for anyone. The first I believe, the second would be too depressing to even fathom the true hopelessness we would have to exist in
To: billbears; ff--150
"
There is one and only one way to God. Christ was right that He was THE way and every other religious belief is wrong ... "
I have never read where Buddha, Mohammed or anyone else raised themself from the dead. Only Jesus Christ died for us - paying the price for our sins. Then He was resurrected - my God is alive, sorry about theirs.
38
posted on
03/17/2002 6:49:41 PM PST
by
4CJ
To: RnMomof7, jude24, the_doc, CCWoody, BibChr, Jerry_M
By contrast, another current author joins Paul in glorying in the cross. Fleming Rutledge, a traveling Episcopal preacher who lives in Port Chester, N.Y., embraces the Book of Common Prayer's Communion affirmation that Jesus Christ made "a full, perfect, and sufficient sacrifice, oblation and satisfaction, for the sins of the whole world." Rutledge has collected seasonal meditations in her book The Undoing of Death (Eerdmans). Though sermons often fall flat on the printed page, this book is unusually readable devotional fare. She believes the cross is misunderstood if we forget that Jesus the Son is equally God along with the Father (which liberal Christians and Unitarians deny). And some conservatives portray "a wrathful Father piling condemnation on an innocent, victimized Son. This mistake must be strenuously resisted," she writes. The heart of the atoning sacrifice on the cross, Rutledge insists, is "the fact that the Father's will and the Son's will are one. This is an action that the Father and the Son are taking together." They are "accomplishing our redemption together," acting in united love for humanity.Ahem....
Aside from the ridiculous idea of a God-created woman serving as a Presbyter (did God create Women to serve as servant-king husbands? Did God create Men to suckle His children at their very breasts? Let's be realistic, people -- we all have our proper Duties...)
Aside from that, I actually don't have a problem with this woman's theology (except as critically noted below).
The Cross was not a Transaction between God and Man.
The Cross was a Transaction between the Father and the Son.
(the following skit is just OP's personal understanding of Scripture. Nothing is Infallible, save, of course, the Scripture cited herein...)
God the Trinity: "This Race is...
Fallen."
They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.... For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. (Romans 3:12, 23; Psalm 58:3)
God the Father: "If you will Atone, I will give you These."
At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. (Matthew 11: 25-27)
God the Son: "I shall Atone, and they shall be Mine."
Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. (Ephesians 5:25-27)
God the Spirit: "So it is written; so it shall be done."
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.... In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (Ephesians 1: 3-6, 11-14)
To: 4ConservativeJustices
Well, my God and Lord, Jesus--ANYONE CAN MEET face to face, person to person...Just ASK! He not only loves us, but--He likes you, too.
40
posted on
03/18/2002 4:46:08 AM PST
by
Ff--150
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