Posted on 02/14/2023 10:08:36 AM PST by SeekAndFind
I squirreled this article away in my One Notes. Thank you for posting it.
In societal terms, moral values are far more important than theologies.
That is why traditionally religious Protestants, Catholics, Mormons, and Jews are aligned on almost every important social issue.
—Dennis Prager
This is a wonderfully precise and thorough yet succinct explanation of the headlined topic for the times we are in.
Plato lived a mere three centuries befor Christ. The revelations from God to Moses and the Hebrews occurred thousands of years before Plato.
Correction: a thousand years before Plato, not thousands
“Plato lived a mere three centuries before Christ. The revelations from God to Moses and the Hebrews occurred a thousand of years before Plato.”
Sure and Moses never taught:
“that there are objective moral truths just as there are mathematical and scientific truths”
That was not part of traditional Judaism.
Of course it was. It just wasn't worded that way. God spoke to Moses, and He spoke and appeared to the people directly, teaching them that He is their Creator, and that His Commandments are the means of holy living, and enjoying the blessings of a just society.
His moral laws are absolute operational realities of our macro and micro existence, like musical notes. Your individual note is either in tune, or it's not.
Human discoveries of math and science would come later in history; but God knew what would lie ahead. The scriptures reveal that Jesus demonstrated His ability to see the future many times.
And eventually, time will tell that math and science, accurately understood, align with universal moral law. What we are seeing around us now is the chaos resulting from the mistaken notion that humans can tinker with the universal laws and change the order of Creation to suit their selfish desires. It will backfire. Many will die in the tribulations to come, whether they believe or disbelieve, because of the present world's sinful arrogance. But His believers will live forever.
On the issue of immigration Jews, Catholics, and Mormons are on one side and Protestants are on the other.
” He is their Creator, and that His Commandments are the means of holy living, and enjoying the blessings of a just society.”
Yes, but he also made clear that the covenant was only with the Nation of Israel and the same rules and blessings did not apply to other nations. So it was not a universal law.
Prager makes many points but I disagree that man has autonomous free will. After the fall of Adam and Eve, their children inherited a sin nature. One cannot face the King of Heaven because of man’s sin. Prager skips the point that believing Christians recognize that in Christ we can still sin. The solution is to confess those sins and, repent of those sins, and seek forgiveness from Christ. Christ did not leave Christians on their own, but sent the Holy Spirit to minister to us and cleanse us from the sins from which we committed because of Christ’s death on the Cross. He paid our debt and expects us to do His will as His people.
[[eventually, time will tell that math and science, accurately understood, align with universal moral law.]]
Consider these videos:
Atheists CANNOT Explain This Secret Code Seen in Creation – Mandelbrot Set – Jason Lisle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taKaFUNJ6Ec
This is a *fascinating* journey into (but not very deep) math that hints at the existence of a creator.
Why This Atheist Scientist Became a Believing Christian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMBQwGzn_TE
Interesting comments on abiogenesis and replication.
Noah’s Flood and the Development of Geology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMaUzNlDnSY
The geology of massive floods.
Search youtube for “Ken Ham.” He has a number of videos focusing on Genesis 1-11 as a source to explain both theology and science.
Also search for “Jason Lisle” for more videos.
Your wish for science to confirm creation has already started.
He is talking about core moral values as seen from God's point of view, not political issues. The Bible addresses immigration and also lawfulness in many ways, which keep the issue under debate. But it's not a bedrock issue of character—i.e. if a husband and wife disagree over immigration, it's not a widely-accepted grounds for divorce like adultery.
The covenant was about deliverance to the promised land. The Commandments are what God expects of humankind. Nor were the Commandments to be regarded as merely man-made law. God was revealing “what works” for him from all people. The Israelites, receiving the Word first, were to be an example to all nations.
Yes, but that Covenant was only between God and the Jewish people:
“the Lord loved you and kept the oath he swore to your ancestors that he brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you from the land of slavery. Know therefore that the Lord your God is God; he is the faithful God, keeping his covenant of love to a thousand generations of those who love him and keep his commandments.”
It was not until Jesus that God expanded his covenant to include all manking.
Started long ago. Many of the early scientists were believers. Even the more recent Big Bang Theory was developed by a Catholic priest (recent FR thread on the topic). It is mainly the secular scientists our wicked age who are trying to use their discoveries to achieve control of the world's people—following their master, Satan.
Thanks for the links. You might enjoy the works of Australian chemist and Christian apologist Dr. Jonathan Sarfati.
And how does that contradict Prager's assertion that Jews and Christians share the same Commandments?
It disproves his assertion that the Hebrew Bible invented the idea of universal moral truths.
The history of our faith is that Jesus came to Earth and taught the world the fundamental truths. Before that God had only established a more limited covenant with the Israelites.
These truths were not hidden, and smart men before Jesus also figured them out (Plato, Buddha). Never the complete set, but important pillars of the truth that our savior world confirm.
The Hebrew Bible did not invent anything. God is real. He is the One Who appeared to Moses and the Israelites. He set in motion a civilization that until recently enshrined His moral law. All of that is described in detail in the Torah portion of the Old Testament.
It sounds like you have never read the Old Testament, which is not some sort of separate, alien thing from the New. Everything in the Old point to the life, death, and resurrection of the Living God, Jesus.
“The Hebrew Bible did not invent anything”
It’s Prager who said it introduced new things. Not I.
It have read the OT, multiple times. Show me where in the OT it says that the Covenant with Moses was with all mankind rather than just the Israelites.
God Himself mentioned the Covenant as the "price" the Israelites were to make in order for Him to establish them as a holy priesthood, established above all the nations. (Ex 19:5-6). In this way, Prager is on solid ground: the Lord set the Israelites first among all peoples because of the moral law entrusted to them to uphold. Therefore, how could this manifestation of holiness by God's chosen people not be exactly what Prager claimed—a common inheritance of all who believe that the God who appeared to the Israelites is indeed the One God, and that the Commandments He gave are universal?
Romans 11 goes on to explain that "the gentiles" are grafted onto the root that is Israel—not the nation state of today, but the ethos of the Israelites to whom God gave the law.
As Christians, we see the events of the Old Testament are foreshadows of the Christ and His people. It is now Christians who are the holy priesthood called by God.
...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. —1 Peter 2:5The Israelites were to sacrifice their desires of the flesh, both in their behavior and by ritual sacrifice, and uphold God's Commandments and statutes in order to inherit the Promised Land.But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, to proclaim the virtues of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. —1 Peter 2:9
...who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen. —Revelation 1:6
You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign upon the earth. —Revelation 5:10
Moving forward through generations to the grafting on of the gentiles to Israel, God sent his Son to be the sacrificial Lamb for all who hear Him and believe in Him, and serve as a priesthood of believers here on earth until we inherit the Kingdom.
Jesus said at his trial before Pilate, "For this cause I was born, and for this cause I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice.” (John 18:37) The moral law is Truth for all people who come to Jesus to experience Salvation.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.