How Protestantism Redefined Marriage

HuffPost Religion ^ | Jul 2012 | Bethany Blankley

[metmom]

Another BS article that is trolling to flame bait.

The Catholic religion is no friend to marriage when it offers church sanctioned divorce under the guise of annulment, all for a fee, of course. If you know the right people.

Catholics who live in glass houses should not throw stones.

[xp38]

It’s in the new Chinese edition. The book of Zoom.

[Nifster]

So go ahead and marry in the church as a sacrament. If you want your tax emotion you will have to file appropriate papers with the state

Big deal about nothing

[Cincinnatus.45-70]

I get all my religious history as well as doctrine from the HuffPo. Sure I do!

[CondoleezzaProtege]

Yes to their credit HuffPo’s religion section isn’t so bad.

[Texas_Guy]

And Protestants who don’t know anything about Catholic marriage or annulment need to read up more before they speak up.

Your statements are salacious and just plain wrong.

[metmom]

God said that whatever God joined together, let no man put asunder.

And annulment is breaking marriage vows as cert as divorce does and is in effect, no different that divorce i the outcome.

It’s Catholic sanctioned divorce, breaking of marriage vows.

[MurphsLaw]

And annulment is breaking marriage vows as cert as divorce does

No that is simply incorrect.
An annulment is judgement investigated and made to determine whether or not the marriage was not a valid marriage to begin with- on the day the marital vows were made. That the Matrimony was or was not in the acceptable form the Church requires. Conversely, couples can, and many are, married in an invalid form and yet never divorce. Validity of the marital form is all the annulment process is about.

In almost all cases where an annulment judgement is desired- the civil divorce has already occurred.
And no, the a Catholic Church does not sanction divorce, even for infidelity, (though there is a moral obligation to divorce if children are being abused or mental illness arises) A large number of Catholics leave the Church every year due to divorce because their second marriage cannot Be validated, and/or they choose to live in a state of Remarried Mortal sin and cannot receive Communion in a worthy manner.

On an aside, request for annulments has dropped dramatically since the 1990s - either people just leave the Church to avoid the rigidity of the process.... or marriage prep has gotten better. But if you find marriage and it’s dissolubility any more serious than in Catholicism, I’d like to know.

[sauropod]

.

[metmom]

God does not recognize the Catholic excuse of there not being a valid marriage.

That concept is NEVER even alluded to in Scripture but rather is a Catholic fabricated excuse to institute church sanctioned divorce.

That way Catholic can have their cake and eat it too.

Catholics can get out of their undesirable marriages not only without penalty, but with the actual blessing of the Catholic church on an action that God condemns. Marriage was not the Catholic religion’s idea and it has no authority over marriages to deign them either valid or not.

It does not own the concept of marriage and does not have control over deciding which ones are valid and which ones are not.

[Chaguito]

Pastor

[Chaguito]

*rim-shot*

[MurphsLaw]

God does not recognize the Catholic excuse of there not being a valid marriage.....That concept is NEVER even alluded to in Scripture but rather is a Catholic fabricated excuse to institute church sanctioned divorce.

So many incorrect statements. Though, How could you understand the Church from the outside.

Scripturally- Putting away your spouse is in the Bible-
Matthew:
+++9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.

So Matthew is wrong or you have to spin that to fit into your belief set somehow. Go for it. But that is not where its at. You can deny the Church was the sole authority for Christ's mission for us earthlings for the first 1500 years.. and deny the apostolic succession of the Church - and the authority Christ gave Peter to "Bind and Loose" - but Christ gave the Church to us and with the guidance of the Holy Spirit to bind us to doctrine that is required to maintain the Christ mission on earth. As we dont live in caves anymore, and the first 1500 years most humans could not read ... the Church was there to bring Christ through ancient times to this day, and maintain the Sacramental life promised us. Developing doctrine along the Scriptural foundation to help that steering process of the Authoritative Church is necessary. One authority - NOT 10,000 belief sets doing their own thing. Chaos again.

That is why a Catholic who marries OUTSIDE the Church does not do so in validly in the eyes of God - as it was for the first 1500 years of Christianity- as that mixed marriage is deemed illicit and simply becomes a civil ceremony outside the binding and loosing framework of what the Church has established. Again, what happens outside the Church- stays outside the Church.

Within the Church, the moral obligation to adhere to doctrine established though the guided centuries is necessary to protect the validity and sanctity of the Sacrament. And the proof is that it has. But that doesn't mean a wife has to endure an abusive husband who harms her or the children, to even possibly death. "Until death do us part" yes, but not that way.... Life has gotten a little more complicated in 2000 years.

That way Catholic can have their cake and eat it too.

What else are you supposed to do with cake if it is not supposed to be eaten? Look at it ?

By Msgr. Charles Pope, June 9, 2020 There are some today who speak of annulment as “just another name for a Catholic divorce.” However, this is not correct. An annulment (more technically described as a “Declaration of Nullity”) is a recognition by the Church, based on evidence, that what may in fact have seemed to be a marriage, was not due to some intrinsic flaw at the time the vows we exchanged. A marriage may have been a civil marriage entered into in good faith by one or both of the parties, but something essential was lacking in the intentions or understanding of one or both parties that made the marriage invalid that a true marriage never existed in religious terms. Thus there is nothing to divorce, since no marriage exists. “Divorce” is a term of civil law and the Lord explicitly teaches that he will not be bound by the decision of some civil judge. (see Malachi 2:16 ; Matthew 19:1-12, among others). However, not every couple who goes through a marriage ceremony does so validly and that is the key matter in question in the process of annulment, “Was this marriage validly celebrated?” It is actually our Lord Jesus himself who makes this point at the the very moment he teaches against divorce. Lets look at what he teaches. The Biblical Root of Annulments. The Lord says this in regard to marriage: “What God has joined together, let no one divide (Mat 19:6). On the face of it, divorce and any sort of annulment is forbidden would seem forbidden by this. But actually the text serves as a basis for the Church’s allowance of annulment under certain circumstances. The text says What GOD has joined together cannot be divided. Now just because two people stand before a Justice of the Peace, or a minister or even a priest and swear vows, does not mean that what they do is a work of God. There have to be some standards that the Church insists on for us to acknowledge that what they do is “of God.” There are a number of impediments that can render what they do ipso facto invalid. Things such as prior marriage, consanguinity (too close in the blood lines), minor status (too young), incapacity for the marriage act, and lying or failing to disclose important information to the future spouse. There are others as well. Further, it is widely held that when one or both parties are compelled to enter the marriage or that they display a grave lack of due discretion on account of immaturity or poor formation, that such marriages are null on these grounds. All these are ways that the Church, using her power to bind and loose, comes to a determination that what appeared to be a marriage externally was not in fact so based on evidence. Put more scripturally, the putative marriage was not “what God has joined together.” You may ask, “Who is the Church to make such a determination?” I answer that, “She is in fact the one to whom the Lord entrusted, through the ministry of Peter and the Bishops the power to bind and loose (Mt 18:18) and to speak in His name (Lk 10:16). Annulments are not Divorces– As noted, a decree of nullity from the Church is a recognition, based on the evidence given, that a marriage in the Catholic and Biblical sense of the word never existed. Since a person has not in fact been joined by God they are free to marry in the future. In such a case a person does not violate our Lord’s declaration that one who divorces their spouse and marries another commits adultery (cf Matt 19:9). There are some who wonder: Are we giving too many annulments? While it is clear that the Church has some pretty clear canonical norms regarding marriage, like any norms they have to be interpreted and applied. Certain American practices and norms have evolved over the last forty years that some question as being too permissive and thus no longer respectful of the binding nature of marital vows. I am not without my concerns that we may give too many annulments but there is nothing intrinsically flawed with the Church teaching here, concern is directed only to the prudential application of the norms. Annulment cases vary greatly. Often it isn’t as crass as somebody coming in and saying, “Well I got rid of my first wife and have got me another I want to marry, let’s get the paperwork going Father.” It is usually far more poignant than that. Perhaps someone married early, before they were really very serious about the faith and they married someone who abused them. Now, years later after the divorce they have found someone who is able to support them in their faith. Perhaps they met them right in the parish. Should a marriage that was in young and foolish years and lasted all of six months preclude them from entering a supportive union that looks very promising? Another more common scenario is often the case where in a person shows up at RCIA who has recently found the Catholic faith and wants to enter it. However, they were married 15 years ago in a Protestant Church to their current spouse who had been married before. Now, mind you, their current marriage is strong and they have both been drawn to the Catholic Faith. They have four kids as well. What is a priest to do? Well I can tell you that this priest will help the one who needs an annulment to get it. I can tell you a lot of cases come to the Church this way. It’s hard and perhaps even unjust to say to someone like this that there is nothing the Church can do for them, they will never qualify for sacraments. No, we just don’t do that, we take them through the process for annulment and see if there can be evidence that the first marriage was null. Perhaps too another person shows up at the door, A long lost Catholic who has been away 30 years. During that time he or she did some pretty stupid stuff including getting married and divorced, sometimes more than once. Now they show up at my door in a current marriage that seems strong and helpful and which includes children. The person is in desperate need of confession and Holy Communion. What is a pastor to do? He takes them through the process of annulment to get them access to those sacraments if possible. So there it is. There are very grave pastoral issues on both sides. The current instinct of the Church, given the poisonous quality of the culture toward marriage is to be more willing to presume there were problems. If you are in a second marriage, please consider contacting your parish priest. Don’t presume you’re unwanted, or can never receive the sacraments. The tribunal process isn’t that difficult and the Church stands ready to assist you.

[metmom]

Catholics can rationalize it all they want.

It’s divorce by another name and ends up with the exact same resuslts.

[Texas_Guy]

That’s an ignorant response. Not even close.

For instance if someone grabbed your daughter, shoved a gun in her ribs and said “Marry me or else I’ll blast you!” and she proceeded to go through a marriage ceremony would she be lawfully married? Of course not.

The same applies if your spouse is already married when they marry you (polygamy), if they were sterile and didn’t disclose it before marriage or had no intention of being faithful after the vows were said. Those are invalid marriages and deserve annulment.

[MurphsLaw]

Catholics can rationalize it all they want.

No... you don't get off that easy... . If two supposedly Christian people so in love run off to Vegas for a Justice of the Peace ceremony... or to Cabo for a beachside destination wedding - DO REALLY THINK GOD IS JOINING THEM TOGETHER??

No you don't.
Then ANYONE married by a "preacher" could claim Christian validity, beyond the legal civil binding.
Going further, as Catholics- Vows must be made ON the Altar in the presence of God (Though I'm hearing where some liberal priests are violating this) On an Altar where two people are sacrificing their lives to their future spouse- where they become one flesh (a new organism) with the approval of God, sharing in his covenant as one... THIS IS THE REASON- "let no man put asunder"... Because God has truly joined them together-- That is why 'gay" marriage is a charade. A civil union yes- but not a God given Sacred union. There in lies a separated difference.

Now this may seem like rationalization to you - but it is steeped in Canon Law. But its a double edged sword - Marriage without God is a meaningless civil legal function - that can be broken at will - but to be joined with God on his Altar is a sacred union- that can never be broken. Well SOMEONE has to determine marital validity for his Church on earth. In other ares- ecular or otherwise, it is not applicable. that is why divore decree of the Church IS NOT accepted practice outside the Church.

And so unlike most non- Catholic sects, we do believe in the God-given Sacramental nature of marriage - not just a convenience. Until Christ- divorce was readily accepted in both Jewish and Greco-Roman cultures.... Christ would change that... in his Church... for 2000 years now... Now in popularity for the last 100 years its been getting changed back again...which I believe was the initial idea of the post....

[metmom]

No... you don't get off that easy... . If two supposedly Christian people so in love run off to Vegas for a Justice of the Peace ceremony... or to Cabo for a beachside destination wedding - DO REALLY THINK GOD IS JOINING THEM TOGETHER??

Yes.

So you are saying is that any marriage not done by the Catholic religion is not valid?

So anyone married outside of Catholicism is living in sin, according to Catholicism.

Wrong.

The Catholic religion does not get to decide for the world what constitutes a valid marriage.

[MurphsLaw]

Sheeesh.... you do realize Atheists also get married? I think your permissive view of God sanctioned marriage would be news to those couples. What a sad and diminishing perspective you hold concerning God’s gift of Marriage.

Elizabeth Taylor was “married” 7 or 8 times....and married Richard Burton twice. I realize that’s an uncommon situation, but if you don’t see the possibility of abuse Of wedding vows In that- even with someone getting married 3-4 times, then obviously one could not see abuse of the Sacrament in other issues as well- and there are many.

You don’t want the Church to administer doctrine, which it has done continuously for 2000 years, but you pretend not to see what a lack of authority does to God’s relevance in our world.