Can a Pope Be Removed from Office?

Canon Law Made Easy ^ | January 31, 2013 | canonlawmadeeasy

[ClearBlueSky]

Everyone is focused on the LEGALITIES and procedures within the hierarchy of the Church. In this case those legal procedures would have to be enacted by the VERY people who are guilty. This cannot be fixed from the top down, but from the parish level up!
I am a Roman Catholic. The Church is the PEOPLE, the believers. We have the power to change the Church, starting at the parish level. When priests are found to be sexual with children(OR EACH OTHER) it is the duty of those they serve to DRIVE THEM OUT. Report them to civil authorities, do not attend Mass, do not put a dime into the parish, raise hell every day. Accept NO payoffs. In blatant,long term cases-yes-vigilante justice.
Do that on the local level everywhere. Priests, Bishops and even Cardinals do not live in isolation. They are surrounded by Catholics who-when disgusted enough- can, and should, drag them and their evil into the light.
If the homosexuals and pedophiles won't walk out they should be dragged out, physically and finally. WE are the Church. Clean house!

[ealgeone]

He is not dodging, he is stirring the pot to create dissension among the faithful. He is acting in clearly bad faith.

You mean like the myriad of articles posted by YOUR fellow Roman Catholics?

You mean like the myriad of posts on the various threads calling for the removal of YOUR pope by YOUR fellow Roman Catholics??

From the article...written by a ROMAN CATHOLIC ANON LAWYER....

Cathy Caridi, J.C.L. is an American canon layer who practices law and teaches in Rome. She founded this website to provide clear answers to canonical questions asked by ordinary Catholics, without employing all the mysterious legalese that canon lawyers know and love......Canon lawyers are not responsible for the content of canon law. The Supreme Legislator is. Only Pope Francis can change the Code of Canon Law, so if you're not happy with what the law says, please take it up with him.

http://canonlawmadeeasy.com/2013/01/31/pope-removed-from-office/

It's amazing the hypocrisy of you two. Not once do I see you criticize YOUR fellow Roman Catholics calling for the removal of YOUR pope.

I post one article from a canon lawyer asking if it can even be done "legally" in Roman Catholicism and I'm "stirring the pot"....you honestly cannot make it up.

[ealgeone]

Interesting problem they have here.

First, they need to decide if the Holy Spirit guided the CoC in selecting the pope in the first place.

We've had one Roman Catholic on record saying NO.

[ealgeone]

YOU keep maintaining that Unam Sanctam means that Catholics have to do "whatever the Pope says". THAT interpretation rests SOLELY on your opinion of what Unam Sanctam means. NO Catholic theologian agrees with your interpretation, BECAUSE IT'S WRONG. I already explained to you why it's wrong according to basic moral theology, AND posted a Catholic source as evidence.

Playground rules: Put up or hush up.

Roman Catholic sure don't like THEIR OWN bulls.

Now, if you're saying Unam Sanctam is no longer applicable then you're setting yourself up to be an expert of what is or is not legit in terms of Roman Catholic bulls.....but I do see that Roman Catholics like to pick and choose which parts of Roman Catholic teachings they like or don't like.

When it directly impacts them in a way they don't like....they want to disregard it.

When it's something they want to use to support their denomination....then they're all for it.

Amazing.

[ealgeone]

Everyone is focused on the LEGALITIES and procedures within the hierarchy of the Church. In this case those legal procedures would have to be enacted by the VERY people who are guilty. This cannot be fixed from the top down, but from the parish level up!

Because that's what YOUR Roman Catholic church has set up.....the very Canon Laws you're dismissing.

It makes you sound like.....a PROTESTANT. Luther would be proud of you!

You honestly cannot make this up.....oh wait.

[ClearBlueSky]

You really expect homosexual and pedophilic priests to obey canon law when they don't obey VOWS they took before God?
So the Catholics in the churches should obey laws being used by the illegitimate priests to protect themselves? Isn't that like liberals using the Constitution to destroy the Constitution? Laws made, and subsequently corrupted, can be changed. They can also be DISOBEYED. Perhaps it will take the Church(the believers) leaving the Pope and those he's protecting, and not the other way around. What's a General without an army?

Protestant? In the sense that I protest a homosexual/perverted clergy and want to see them all hanged in St. Peter's Square, I take no offense at the appellation. Clean house, start over. Jesus only need 12.

[CTrent1564]

ealgeone:

It is a fair question. I think you did a good job of finding a resource to answer it. Even if the Pope were removed forcibly by the secular state, he would still be Pope. If he is asked to resign, the question would be was he forced to resign under duress, which would potentially make his resignation null and void. So another Pope gets elected and you have a schism in the Western Church similar to the Avignon papacy which resulted in 3 rival Popes (although only 1 was legitimate). Council of Constance in 1417 eventually resolved it.

So could the Catholic Church be heading to something similar, maybe?

[onedoug]

The pope is a fag. And there’s nothing anyone can do about it.

Prayers ever for the Faithful.

[ealgeone]

You really expect homosexual and pedophilic priests to obey canon law when they don't obey VOWS they took before God?

I'm willing to bet most, like it appears based on this thread, aren't even aware of the intricacies of Roman Catholic Canon Law.

So the Catholics in the churches should obey laws being used by the illegitimate priests to protect themselves? Isn't that like liberals using the Constitution to destroy the Constitution? Laws made, and subsequently corrupted, can be changed. They can also be DISOBEYED.

However, you're not allowed to disobey your leaders per Unam Sanctam....much as some of your fellow Roman Catholics dislike the bull.

Perhaps it will take the Church(the believers) leaving the Pope and those he's protecting, and not the other way around. What's a General without an army?

Rome has arrayed a number of Canon laws to protect itself...like this one.

Can. 1404 The First See is judged by no one.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P5A.HTM

However, even if you do disobey, he's still the pope. And per the article...there isn't really much you can do to remove your pope.....short of an Operation Valkyrie type scenario. But then again, that would be a violation of Roman Catholic Canon Law.

Ya'll are in a pickle on this one.

[Boomer]

I’m not catholic; but it’s my understanding that the Pope is God’s representative here in earth and thereby rules by the consent of God. I’ll leave it to Catholics to correct me if I’m wrong.

I'm a lapsed Catholic and all I can say is he is God's representative that the College of Cardinals (people) picked to be God's representative. He was not divinely chosen like Moses was. As such he can be "unpicked" by people as well. This Pope has gone against both the Catholic teachings and the Bible. It wouldn't take much to convince the College of Cardinals to make a new rule or exception to current rules to remove him.

Irregular, yes, impossible; no. Then again we haven't seen a Pope so Anti-Catholic before either. This Pope is also extremely leftist/communist/socialist in his thinking and words. Hopefully the Catholic church has learned two lessons during this scandal. Never appoint a communist Pope and purge all known pedophiles from the church with prejudice and do it fast. Give a one-time warning to all the rest of the priests. Don't cover for a pedophile or other wrongdoing priest or suffer from the same fate as they do.

After the purge let the law handle the defrocked disgraced priests. I've known some good priests in my time so I know they exist. I would add one thing; a suggestion to the church. Start allowing priests to have relationships with women and get married. The church forbids sodomy so Gay marriages would be unacceptable but normal marriages would bring the church into the 21st century.

[narses]

You are not Catholic and yet you try and tell us what to believe and what to do. You are a bigot who has been exposed. Go away.

[narses]

“Ya’ll are in a pickle on this one.”

Ya’ll are a anti-catholic bigot on this and every other Catholic thread you spew on. Disgusting.

[ealgeone]

ealgeone: It is a fair question. I think you did a good job of finding a resource to answer it.

CTrent1564, I appreciate that.

I only posted this as I see so many threads and posts from Roman Catholics either calling for the Pope to resign or calling for a revolution within the RCC itself to remove him.

I was curious could this even be done in Roman Catholicism.

So could the Catholic Church be heading to something similar, maybe?

Possibly.....but with the changes to Roman Catholic Canon Law I don't think so....based on the article.

One thing is for sure....we will find out one way or the other.

[CodeToad]

My Catholic wife said it best: “If he is a Catholic then I’m not. I really don’t need what they’re calling a church.”

[CTrent1564]

ealgeone:

No one can remove the Pope, only death and the Pope Resigning under his own “free will.” Free will is the Key term (Canon 332). See link below.

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P16.HTM

Now, like I said it is a fair question, I hope you can stay on this topic of Papa resignations and not move to tangential issues.

Regards

[ealgeone]

This is really a very fascinating topic in light of what is happening within the Roman Catholic church.

I find it amazing there is not a recourse to remove the pope. I don't know if that's a recent development or something that has been in place since the earliest days of the Roman Catholic church.

[ealgeone]

Ya’ll are a anti-catholic bigot on this and every other Catholic thread you spew on. Disgusting.

You seem to ignore I am posting an article from a Roman Catholic Canon lawyer....this is not my opinion.

But you continue to epitomize what I've noticed about some, though not all Roman Catholics.....they are usually, though not always the first, to resort to the personal attack and/or profanity when the argument goes against them.

[CTrent1564]

ealgeone:

Popes were deposed in the past (I think 3 or 4 times), but any Pope who was deposed had to acquiesce to being forcibly deposed for it to be considered a valid Resignation. That is at least my recollection. Given the separation between European State and Church, the Pope has not had to deal with being forcibly deposed by say for example the French Crown so that the French could get a Pope in Rome in line with French governmental policy.

Voluntary resignations like Pope Benedict have happened like 4 times in the past. With Francis, the question is that we have Bishops publicly calling for his resignation explicitly, some implicitly, which is an area that is new territory.

On a side note (and this may not apply to you), if the Catholic Church implodes, all you FR Protestants can get to celebrate.

With that said, the Catholic Church (orthodox version of it) will stand, may be smaller, may loose European and American leftist, but it will survive.

[ealgeone]

CT....were those resignations before or after the changes in canon law?

[CTrent1564]

Other than Pope Benedict, all were before Pope John Paul II ordered an update to Canon Law in 1983.