Posted on 04/19/2018 2:55:52 PM PDT by ebb tide
Dominus tecum.
Worse than “epic level projection”...it’s epic level HYPOCRISY!
Pretty strange how they will praise Luther one day then make him a scapegoat and an entire pariah category the next.
Maybe this will help...a number of people say that Donald Trump is NOT their President but as long as he lives at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, Washington, DC, is known throughout the world as the President of the United States, can hire or fire anyone he wants for the Cabinet, signs bills which enact them as the law of the land, is able to pardon criminals, travels onboard Air Force One, is the Commander and Chief of our armed forces, etc., then he IS the President.
Pope Francis IS the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, no matter who likes it or not.
The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that they search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved.
Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.
The hope is that Muslims who truly seek all that is beautiful, good, and true will one day see Christ and know him as the goal of all their longing.
Christ came to save the world. We are ALL redeemed i.e. can receive salvation by the act of Christ's sacrifice. Now som epeople deny that grace, but that doesn't mean that the gateway has not been opened. Christ opened the way to heaven and we can reject that path, but the door i.e. the grace is there free for us to accept or not.
Luther joined the Church due to an oath. He initially wanted to clear up some of the abuses, but his cause was taken up by politicians i.e. the German princelings.
it's not a clear case like Wesley and the Methodists.
We must realize that in many many cases what we term religious disagreements have more than a whiff of politics, culture, language etc. mixed up in it.
I agree that pedo priests need to be thrown out and this was badly avoided earlier, but that has changed.
But don't mudsling as, seriously, no one ends up looking good.
It's blindingly easy.
You said the theology of salvation by grace through faith that Luther taught was heresy.
Luther got that straight out of Scripture as penned by Paul and inspired by the Holy Spirit.
If you consider that theology heresy, they you are indeed declaring Paul as a heretic as HE was the one who wrote it down.
To go a little further, it was the Holy Spirit which inspired those words. You might as well then just come out and say that the Holy Spirit inspired heresy cause they are His words.
Luircin's point in post 58 is valid and stands.
A lot of assumptions in your post about me who you don't know.
I've stated it before and will state it again.
I left Catholicism because I accepted Christ and when I started reading the Bible I saw the HUGE discrepancies between Scripture and the teachings of Catholicism and knew which one was the truth and which one was false. So I left the false teachings of Catholicism, which are not Christ focused but rather Mary focused.
I found Christ alright, with no thanks to Catholicism as it teaches that Jesus lives in a piece of bread and you have to eat it to get Him into you.
I now have Him living inside of me through the presence of the Holy Spirit.
I found Christ in a way that that is beyond anything Catholics could even imagine.
The problems with homosexual clergy and the child molestation and cocaine fueled orgies at the Vatican are fact and well documented and in some cases have been long standing in Catholicism.
St. Peter Damian's Book of Gomorrah: Homosexual Situation Graver than Damian's Time
That’s not the issue.
See post 26 which more than applies to you with your incessant drum beating.
Ouch.
You go, girl.....
So you’re willing to condemn in others what I NEVER see you condemn in your own church?
So you’re willing to condemn in others what I NEVER see you condemn in your own church?
Look, is you’re going to excuse it in your own church, you have no business finger pointing to others and condemning them.
Salvation is BY FAITH, not of works.
Works are the wrong thing to pay for sin.
Romans 4:1-25 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? For we say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness. How then was it counted to him? Was it before or after he had been circumcised? It was not after, but before he was circumcised. He received the sign of circumcision as a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised. The purpose was to make him the father of all who believe without being circumcised, so that righteousness would be counted to them as well, and to make him the father of the circumcised who are not merely circumcised but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham had before he was circumcised.
For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression. That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist. In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness of Sarah's womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.
Romans 5:1-2 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Romans 5:9 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God.
Romans 10:9-13 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
Galatians 2:15-21 We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.
Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— just as Abraham “believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”?
Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “In you shall all the nations be blessed.” So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”— so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.
Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.
Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Titus 3:4-8 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
Hebrews 9:22 Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins.
Because you can't. I'm tired of the false witness.
You should be tired of being a false witness.
You are now bearing the false witness, again, in denying this as now shown by Luircin.
I've shown where you've said something you denied as have others.
Luircin is right...if you'd just admit you typed something out of anger [which you seem to have a problem with] and posted it, we'd probably understand. But you don't. You double down on the lie.
As I've told you before...get help somewhere and soon. You really need it.
More importantly, you need to read John. Focus on chapters 3 and 10. Then you might have a better understanding of the Truth.
As believers in Christ we stand ready to help you answer any questions you may have in your study of John.
To old-school Catholics, calling somebody a Lutheran is fightin’ words.
I had a Lutheran great-grandmother. The stories in our family about how the Catholic Church went out of their way to inflict insults on her are legendary.
I know my language was harsh. Sometimes harsh language is the only way to make a point.
I do not like ANY organization that protects child rapists within their ranks, especially those that try to hide or cover it up.
And it is the height of hypocrisy to defend the bad behavior of one organization by trying to say ‘they did it too!’
Sad but true; I’ve got similar stories in my family.
Mom’s side is Catholic; Dad’s side is Lutheran. The family themselves are all very accepting of each other, but the behavior of the Catholic churches! Oi.
I guess when we die we will find out who was right.
You paint all Catholic clergy as pedopiles. You left the Catholic Church because you never believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
Weak Catholics become Protestants. The absolute worst Catholic bashers are fallen away Catholics. But some of the best Catholic apologists are former protestants. Almost to a person when asked why they became Catholic they say because they wanted the truth of Christianity and could not continue living a lie.
Repeating yourself over and over does not a good argument make.
How about trying to explain how Catholic doctrine is 100% in-line with Scripture instead of mind-reading and insulting?
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