Yes, although it works for both sides, sometimes in ignorance, even if not always as bad as,
- http://theupturnedmicroscope.com/comic/logical-fallacies-strawman/
Posted on 04/01/2016 12:41:08 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
Or April Fools, maybe?
Indeed, for we have seen RCs here who range from affirming the conservative evangelicals here as brethren, to those who interpret V2. Lumen Gentium as requiring Prots repent from distinctive doctrines and convert to Catholicism before death in order to be saved. But in reality much the opposite is the case, that Caths at least must repent of hoping that they obtain entrance into Heaven by becoming good enough, and with help of the merits of their church, even through postmortem purification and atonement.
But the The Universal Prayer you posted seems quite good.
This is why Roman Catholicism cannot be true
. It has no divine authority, since it is fundamentally unseen and contrary to the only transcendent substantive wholly inspired body of the Truth, the Scripture, with no church looking to Peter as the first of a line of infallible popes in Rome, and no sacerdotal class of clergy distinctively titled priests, daily offering up the Eucharistic as a sacrifice for sins, to be consumed to obtain spiritual life, no one praying to created beings in Heaven, except pagans, nor manifestly teaching of postmortem atonement and purification commencing at death. Etc.It has no apostolic origination or succession, since her faith is critically contrary to that of the apostles of Scripture, and validity of office is not based on formal succession, and the church began in dissent from those which sat in the seat of Moses, while Rome's so-called apostolic successors even fail of the qualifications and credentials of manifest Biblical apostles, (Acts 1:21,22; 1Cor. 9:1; Gal. 1:11,12; 2Cor. 6:1-0; 12:12) nor are any apostolic successors mentioned in Scripture after Judas (to maintain the original foundational number: Rv. 21:14), though James was martyred, (Acts 12:1,2) nor any by majority vote. In contrast, even by the 4th century we have a so-called successor to Peter employing a gang of murderous thugs in order to secure his papal seat, and making the papacy more like that of a Caesar.
It was founded illegitimately, since it cannot lay claim to being the NT church, and instead history testifies that it was the result of progressive deformation and accretion of errors, yet holding to basic salvific truths whereby a pious remnant could be saved, despite her deviant trappings, for "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)
That leaves one holy catholic apostolic church that is historical and found in abundance in every century since founded by the Jewish apostles with the Jewish Messiah as the chief cornerstone, this being the universal corporate body of Christ, as that is what Christ purchased with His sinless shed blood, and is married to, (Acts 20:28; Eph. 5:25-32) as it alone always consists 100% of true believers, while the organic bodies which represent it invariably end up being an admixture of wheat and tares.
However, since even the assembly under the elitist proto-pope Diotrephes is called a church, as is that of Laodiceans church (3 Jn. 1:9; Rv. 3:14)
As is abundantly evidenced?
And that even in the OT, God provided what was needed for salvation and growth in grace as commanded (though God would yet give more grace)?
And that both men and writings of God were correctly discerned and established as being so, without an infallible magisterium and even in dissent from the authorative magisterium, and thus providing for a canon, and also the didactic and prophetic foundation for the church?
And that obedience to oral preaching of truths can be enjoined, under the premise that they are demonstrably Scriptural, as were those of apostles, (Acts 17:11) yet not as presuming to be wholly inspired of God as Scripture, nor providing new revelation as apostles and NT writers did, but neither of which even Rome claims?
If true, as all the above can be shown to be, then what is your objection to both the supremacy of Scripture as well as its sufficiency - in its formal and material aspects - for what God commands?
Actually the fine print says, "...chapter twelve, in its entirety, as authorized, but not authored, by King James." Better choice than the American Bishop's approved RC translations.
The man:God ratio Protestant songs got it reversed Compare to earliest hymns which were all God Most of he latest hymns are all I me we - over and over
Context is king. When dealing with the filthy nature of man then it is Scriptural to magnify it in order to contrast it with God, as well as to glorify the latter by referring to His works and grace.
Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. (Romans 11:5-6)
For we would not, brethren, have you ignorant of our trouble which came to us in Asia, that we were pressed out of measure, above strength, insomuch that we despaired even of life: But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead: Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; (2 Corinthians 1:8-10)
I verily thought with myself, that I ought to do many things contrary to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. Which thing I also did in Jerusalem: and many of the saints did I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and when they were put to death, I gave my voice against them. And I punished them oft in every synagogue, and compelled them to blaspheme; and being exceedingly mad against them, I persecuted them even unto strange cities. Whereupon as I went to Damascus with authority and commission from the chief priests, At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, to make thee a minister and a witness both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision: But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judæa, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance. (Acts 26:9-20)
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; (Ephesians 3:7-8)
The Holy Spirit can even glorify God by implicitly referring to His working without even once mentioning his name, as is the case with the entire book of Esther. We can only imagine what disparaging remarks holier-than-the-Holy-Spirit souls could say about that book.
In the light of all the above, references to God are not dubious (uncertain or doubtful) references in AG, unless one is unfamiliar with Scripture.
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, [Prov. 4:8-10ff; Ps, 34:12; 51:8]
That saved a wretch like me [Rm. 3:10-23].
I once was lost [Lk. 19:10) but now am found,[Lk. 15:4-32]
Was blind, but now, I see. [Acts 26:18]
T’was Grace that taught,
my heart to fear. [Ps. 9:20; 107:39-42]
And Grace, my fears relieved. [Lk. 1:74]
How precious did that Grace appear,
the hour I first believed. (1 Tim. 1:13; Acts 26:18]
Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come. [2 Cor. 11:23ff]
Tis Grace has brought me safe thus far,
and Grace will lead us home. [2Tim. 4:18]
The Lord has promised good to me, [1 Co. 2:9; Rv. 21:17]
His word my hope secures. [Ps. 56:3,10]
He will my shield and portion be, [2 Chron. 2:3; Ps. 16:5]
as long as life endures. [Ps. 73:26]
We’ve been there ten thousand years,
bright shining as the sun. [Mt. 13:43]
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise,
than when we’ve first begun. [Ps. 45:17; 61:18]
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound, [Prov. 4:8-10ff; Ps, 34:12; 51:8]
That saved a wretch like me [Rm. 3:10-23].
I once was lost [Lk. 19:10) but now am found,[Lk. 15:4-32]
Was blind, but now, I see. [Acts 26:18]
Most excellent work! That’s a keeper.
That’s encouraging !
Thanks!
Yes, although it works for both sides, sometimes in ignorance, even if not always as bad as,
- http://theupturnedmicroscope.com/comic/logical-fallacies-strawman/
But the The Universal Prayer you posted seems quite good.
I don't merit Heaven, and I can't become "good enough" to enter. I MAY (and this is highly unlikely) merit some eternal reward, but even that's not going to be through my own efforts, unless I manage to get myself martyred perhaps.
What has to be blasted out of us after the soul and body separate (death) are those venial attachments and those parts of what make us who we are that are due to sin. I like to think of it as happening as we enter the Divine Presence. As we encounter God all those little things melt away... my "attachments" to my sins that I have long since repented of. It may even be a painful experience depending on how much is still with me when I see Our Lord.
I don't know, maybe non-Catholics are totally detached from sin, but I know I'm not. I know I wasn't when I was a Protestant, I was a teenager for goodness sake and there were girls all over the place. The memories shame me, but they make up who I am now: All that has to go.
I think you’re off by about 100 years on Athanasius, he was alive in the 300s IIRC. But already the Church in Rome was a serious enterprise, there are lots of records from the time recording the charitable works of the Church as regards widows and orphans, lists of deacons, presbyters, acolytes, doorkeepers, exorcists. There were 100 episcopal sees in Italy by AD250. There was even a basilica across from Diocletian’s palace, a CHRISTIAN basilica... Catholic even.
If Christ’s Church collapsed to be replaced by Catholicism it had to have happened VERY early, long before Constantine for instance, because Catholicism as we know it was a going concern, comprising about 15% of the Imperial population by AD300. That’s about 7.5million people, they weren’t meeting in house churches or catacombs anymore, they were going to Mass in cathedrals.
catholics love to overlook this.
Then you disagree with the need for RC purgatory. Purgatory itself means "to make clean, to purify" (Lat., "purgare"), and one of the two purposes of purgatory, besides its fantasy of atoning for sin, is that one must be purified of character defects and its attachment to sin, to be with God, since no unclean thing will enter glory.
The CE explains that St. Augustine "describes two conditions of men; "some there are who have departed this life, not so bad as to be deemed unworthy of mercy, nor so good as to be entitled to immediate happiness" etc.
And thus by the close of the fourth century was taught "a place of purgation..from which when purified they "were admitted unto the Holy Mount of the Lord". For " they were "not so good as to be entitled to eternal happiness". - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm
Thus Kreeft states,
"...we will go to Purgatory first, and then to Heaven after we are purged of all selfishness and bad habits and character faults." Peter Kreeft, Because God Is Real: Sixteen Questions, One Answer, p. 224
As do lay RCs who say such things as say,
"ones who will go directly to heaven are the ones who have already shed every last trace of self-love left in their hearts...Their hearts are left with nothing but pure love for Christ." -http://stillcatholic.com/CATHPurg.htm
What has to be blasted out of us after the soul and body separate (death) are those venial attachments and those parts of what make us who we are that are due to sin
In other words, you must become good enough to enter glory. Moreover, the old man, the flesh, will never be made subject to God, while perfection of character requires more than simply purification, but of testing, of temptation, which temptations both believers and the Lord both endured, only on the earth.
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect [experience in overcoming], he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; (Hebrews 5:8-9)
Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: (1 Peter 1:5-6)
From the CCC
II. GRACE
1996 Our justification comes from the grace of God. Grace is favor, the free and undeserved help that God gives us to respond to his call to become children of God, adoptive sons, partakers of the divine nature and of eternal life.
1997 Grace is a participation in the life of God. It introduces us into the intimacy of Trinitarian life: by Baptism the Christian participates in the grace of Christ, the Head of his Body. As an "adopted son" he can henceforth call God "Father," in union with the only Son. He receives the life of the Spirit who breathes charity into him and who forms the Church.
1998 This vocation to eternal life is supernatural. It depends entirely on God's gratuitous initiative, for he alone can reveal and give himself. It surpasses the power of human intellect and will, as that of every other creature.
1999 The grace of Christ is the gratuitous gift that God makes to us of his own life, infused by the Holy Spirit into our soul to heal it of sin and to sanctify it. It is the sanctifying or deifying grace received in Baptism. It is in us the source of the work of sanctification
You may well disagree as to how Grace is imparted to us, but stop with the hackneyed smears on Catholic theology. Disagree with what we actually believe, not what you apparently wish we did.
There was no "collapse" any more than there was of Judaism by the time of Christ, but in both cases there was progressive deformation, more so with Rome. Thus there is a manifest contrast btwn the 2nd and 3rd century church with the NT body, and btwn the latter and what developed latter. Modern RC scholarship itself provides testimony against the typical propaganda of the RCC being that of the early church, which includes long term use of forgeries.
Yet holding to basic salvific truths whereby a pious remnant could be saved, despite her deviant trappings, for "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." (Psalms 34:18)
Now there's a presumption if I ever saw one.
No Christian I know depends on a *magisterium*, human leadership of any kind, to guide them into truth in the way thatCatholics do.
The Catholic magisterium has set itself up as the governing body and must be followed.
Our thinking is done by ourselves. We don't farm it out. We depend on the Holy Spirit to guide us into truth and not on a church governing board to decide on theology and doctrine.
We don't follow men as Catholic do.
I think the point is that each Protestant is his own “teaching authority” (magisterium).
I submit to the teaching authority of the Catholic Church as best I understand it, even on those issues which I find difficult, such as EENS. If I were to rely on my own authority I would dump EENS and hell for starters.
So too a Protestant relies upon what they say the Holy Ghost guides them to believe, but when a contrary opinion is raised by another they split and go their separate ways. I grew up watching it happen time and again. “The Bible says X and by that God means Y and to hell with anyone who thinks differently”
Until you can wrap your mind around the fact that if you merit something, you cannot experience grace, you will forever be beyond its reach.
We cannot merit ANYTHING, even if we die a martyr's death.
That does not put us in right standing with God.
What has to be blasted out of us after the soul and body separate (death) are those venial attachments and those parts of what make us who we are that are due to sin.
Nothing has to be blasted out of the soul of a born again/born from above believer.
When we turn to Christ and accept His substitutionary death on the cross, we die to sin and become alive to Christ.
When we die, the body of sin/flesh dies also and all that's left is the new, sinless, redeemed, spiritually alive nature. There's nothing left to *blast* out because Christ did away with it on the cross.
I don't know, maybe non-Catholics are totally detached from sin, but I know I'm not.
No, not in the least. We all struggle with it all the time, but we also know that that is the old nature, not the new redeemed nature.
I know I wasn't when I was a Protestant, I was a teenager for goodness sake and there were girls all over the place. The memories shame me, but they make up who I am now: All that has to go.
Religion doesn't make one right with God. New birth does.
And we all deal with condemnation because the enemy just loves to thro2w our past up in our faces, but if they are forgiven, they are gone forever, separated from us as far as the est is from the west, thrown into the sea of forgetfulness.
GOD doesn't see them any more and if He did, He has chosen to not credit it to our account.
You can be religious all your life, do all the right church things and never be born from above.
God's not interested in our church affiliation but rather our heart.
IMO, grace is always amazing, and the longer I walk with Christ, the more amazing it becomes.
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