Posted on 06/22/2015 6:31:38 PM PDT by ebb tide
....”Since Satan can counterfeit miracles, it’s up to those claiming that the miracle is from God to prove that it is.”.....
Those who hold tight to “seeing” miracles and various
signs” are in for a great deception when it comes as they’ll be ripe for it.
As is written...”For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive”.......Behold, I have told you in advance.”....Matt 24:24
And 2 Thess 2:9 warns us..”The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie”.
What about Moses and Elijah.
Your argument falls apart before it gets off the ground.
Those miracles referenced were already matter in existence.
Satan is the prince of the power of the air and during the Tribulation, the enemy heals a fatal head wound.
Not only that, Jesus also noted that the enemy can perform miracles.
Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Jesus never denied that mighty works were done.
Exodus 7:8-12 Then the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “When Pharaoh says to you, ‘Prove yourselves by working a miracle,’ then you shall say to Aaron, ‘Take your staff and cast it down before Pharaoh, that it may become a serpent.’” So Moses and Aaron went to Pharaoh and did just as the Lord commanded. Aaron cast down his staff before Pharaoh and his servants, and it became a serpent. Then Pharaoh summoned the wise men and the sorcerers, and they, the magicians of Egypt, also did the same by their secret arts. For each man cast down his staff, and they became serpents. But Aaron's staff swallowed up their staffs.
Exodus 7:20-22 Moses and Aaron did as the Lord commanded. In the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants he lifted up the staff and struck the water in the Nile, and all the water in the Nile turned into blood. And the fish in the Nile died, and the Nile stank, so that the Egyptians could not drink water from the Nile. There was blood throughout all the land of Egypt. But the magicians of Egypt did the same by their secret arts. So Pharaoh's heart remained hardened, and he would not listen to them, as the Lord had said.
Exodus 8:6-7 So Aaron stretched out his hand over the waters of Egypt, and the frogs came up and covered the land of Egypt. But the magicians did the same by their secret arts and made frogs come up on the land of Egypt.
Where did Pharaoh's magicians get the power to turn water into blood, bring up frogs out of the Nile, and turn their staffs into snakes?
Thanks for that other verse.
There’s such a movement in the church today to blithely accept any spectacular event as having to be from God, that people are not using any discernment any more.
We are warned over and over in Scripture that the enemy DOES have power here on this earth and will be using it for the purpose of deception.
Too much stock is put into miracles.
Instead of verifying the miracles with Scripture, people use the miracles to verify anything that’s spoken, especially if someone throws a few Scripture verses in and invites people to *accept* Christ.
And *bilocation* is referenced in Scripture, where, exactly?
What's the history on it and when and where was it first recorded and by whom?
Yes, satan can counterfeit miracles. But not true healing miracles.
Only God can perform a miraculous healing. Some types of healings are a sure sign of the work of God. These are expressed in Christ’s own words as an answer to a question of John the Baptist that can be deemed a test of Christ’s Spirit. Christ said His works were His proof.
“Go and report to John what you have heard and seen: the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead rise, the poor have the gospel preached to them.” (Luke 7:22)
Investigate church approved miracles, you might learn something interesting. Miracles are signs of a truth given by God.
Andrew did not need a miracle (John 1:40).
And he found first his own brother Simon, and said to him, "we have found the Messiah" (John 1:41 NASB).
Philip also responded without the need of a miracle (John 1:43).
Matthew responded without the need of a miracle.
So there we have four of the disciples responding without need of a miracle.
Jesus also chastised the Jews for needing to see miracles in order to believe in John 4:48.
We also have the warning that false messiahs and false prophets would appear and perform signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect (Matt 24:24 and Mark 13:22)
Do miracles still happen? Yes, I believe they do.
Are they necessary for one to believe? No.
We have the Word to point us to Christ.
As John noted in two of his writings...."these things have been written so that you may believe Jesus is the Christ" (John 20:31) and "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13).
My question would be why is it so hard for roman catholics to take the Word as the word?
Recall Satan's attacks on Job.
I would not underestimate nor overestimate exactly what Satan's capabilities are. We know they are limited; just not how limited.
In cases like this our best response would be that of Michael the archangel in his argument with the devil or Moses' body...."The Lord rebuke you".
My question would be why is it so hard for roman catholics to take the Word as the word?
We just don’t take the word as the word we live the word. Just because you interpret it differently, does not mean we are wrong. I will tell the truth of the faith and let God do the rest.
JPII over and out!
Roman catholics seem to need miracles more than anyone else. Why?
We don’t needed miracles to believe what we do. But I am not going to exclude them either when God has something to tell us. If I know it is a God only miracle, I take heed of what He has to say or what He wants to prove as true.
By what criteria do you judge these to be “God only” miracles?
We walk by faith, not by sight.
Blessed are those who believe without seeing.
If God’s say so, His WORD, is not enough, then no miracle will make a difference. Think the rich man and Lazarus who wanted Abraham to send Lazarus back to warn his brothers.
Abraham responded that they had the Law and prophets. When the rich man responded that they’d listen if they saw a miracle, Abraham said that if they did not believe the Law and the prophets for themselves, then they would not believe even if someone rose from the dead.
No miracle is capable of convincing someone who doesn’t want to believe. And someone who wants to believe will believe anyway when they hear the word.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
Only God can create matter out of nothing, such as the changing of water into wine at the marriage feast of Cana, or the multiplication of the bread and fishes. This would also hold for cures that require instantaneous growth of destroyed tissue such as cancer, or the quick closing of a wound such as a stigmata.
By the same criteria as above, only God can multiply matter, since it requires creation. Any instantaneous and permanent cure, scientifically tested, objectively diagnosed and measured, showing the condition of the body both before and after the cure, can only be from God.
The best of these are organic lesions [hernia, cancer, toxication, parasites, and the like], or the organ shows a congenital malformation, or again it is in a state of degeneration or gradual disintegration. Some processes of tissue degeneration are irreversible and therefore incurable. The cure of a blind child, who was born with no pupils in her eyes, is beyond the power of Satan since it is beyond the power of nature. Done by the prayers of Padre Pio. She is still living and she still has no pupils.
A supernatural light given to a soul to understand mysteries of God from imaginary images, as happened with Joseph (Gen. 40:41) and with Daniel (Dan. 1:24), is the highest form of miracle. Neither the demons nor the angels can infuse this supernatural light into the understanding, since they can only cause images and fantasies in the imagination. See Chapters XIV, XV in CITY OF GOD, Book 1.
Satan can fake bilocation by carrying his seer someplace quickly, but only God can allow someone to be in two places at the same time, as in the case of Padre Pio and Mary Agreda.
Only God can perform a miraculous healing. Some types of healings are a sure sign of the work of God. These are expressed in Christ’s own words as an answer to a question of John the Baptist that can be deemed a test of Christ’s Spirit. Christ said His works were His proof.
“Go and report to John what you have heard and seen: the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead rise, the poor have the gospel preached to them.” (Luke 7:22)
I hope it’s more than trusting the word of someone in the hierarchy of the church.
Considering what we’ve heard about the spirituality of the Catholic hierarchy recently, I wouldn’t trust them with my car keys.
Agnostics in positions of prominence?
The continual verbal meanderings of this current *pope*?
What does it say about the college of cardinals who elected him?
And these are the people who Catholics are trusting for spiritual discernment to tell them if a miracle is from God?
They’re pushing Satan’s agenda, and since they are, since Satan is a liar and the father of lies, then I wouldn’t trust a single thing they say.
I agree. We are not discussing miracles to have faith in Jesus. Everything about Jesus is a miracle. We are discussing miracles that have happened since then.
I can guarantee you it is harder for the church to approve a miracle then it is anywhere else.
My point still stands, though.
If the church is infiltrated by the enemy, and based on what we’ve seen lately it is, there’s no trusting the system.
I could see the enemy *verifying* a *miracle* that was not from God to further his own agenda.
You’re putting a lot of trust in men you don’t know and who have given people plenty of reason to NOT trust them, if you believe everything they tell you.
What about them? They were NOT allowed to communicate with the apostles and God immediately told the apostles to focus on Jesus and refused to allow them to communicate with Moses and Elijah. Take a hint Catholics.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.