Was The Papacy Established By Christ?

triablogue ^ | June 23, 2006 | Jason Engwer

[MHGinTN]

I am wondering if even one catholic posting to these threads has even read the whole short essay at #593. There seem to be no attempts to refute the offering, and it contradicts the teaching of their religion ... there are none so blind as they who Will Not see.

[Syncro]

To: ADSUM

>>Yes. Every day I hunger and thirst for the Body and Blood of Christ.<<

Then you obviously don't believe John 6 as you claim you do.

John 6:35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

602 posted on 6/23/2015, 4:18:51 AM by CynicalBear

Very telling.

Jesus came so the blind could see and the deaf could hear.

May the Holy Spirit infiltrate the minds of those that resist.

[CynicalBear]

>>Yes. Every day I hunger and thirst for the Body and Blood of Christ.<<

Then you obviously don't believe John 6 as you claim you do.

John 6:35 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never hunger, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty.

[CynicalBear]

It’s stunning to watch as they slither around the rest of John 6 isn’t it?

[MHGinTN]

"Why such animus towards the Real Presence?" Genesis 9:4, Leviticus 3:17, and ...

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.

That is upon not at and certainly not in your bellies.

Leviticus 17:12 Therefore I said unto the children of Israel, No soul of you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger that sojourneth among you eat blood.

Leviticus 17:14 For it is the life of all flesh; the blood of it is for the life thereof: therefore I said unto the children of Israel, Ye shall eat the blood of no manner of flesh: for the life of all flesh is the blood thereof: whosoever eateth it shall be cut off.

Deuteronomy 12:16 Only ye shall not eat the blood; ye shall pour it upon the earth as water. ... Luke 22:20 Likewise, he took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

By Catholic reasoning, Catholics would have us believe the new covenant is a cup!

To catholics we would say, eat the blood, be cut off [Lev 17:14] This is much more serious than a thread on an Internet website.

[Syncro]

Acts 17:24-25 The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in temples made by man

I must admit I was gobsmacked when I first saw a Catholic mention (here on Free Republic) going to the adoration.

Imagine being worshiping this "temple made by man" when, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump, Jesus comes.

An interesting fact about the golden calf:

Exodus 32:20 And he took the calf which they had made, and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.

[MHGinTN]

“Imagine being worshiping this “temple made by man” when, in the twinkling of an eye at the last trump, Jesus comes.” Won’t even know anything has happened until the din outside reaches their ears.

[ADSUM]

Your comment: “May the Holy Spirit infiltrate the minds of those that resist.”

Yes. I agree and hope that the protestors listen to the words of Jesus and really believe in Jesus, instead of their continued insistence that they know better. They give excuses as to why one should not eat and drink the Body and Blood of Jesus, but do not dispute the clear and strong statement of Jesus.

Jesus said, “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you have no life within you” (John 6:53).

At the Last Supper he took bread and wine and said, “Take and eat. This is my body . . . This is my blood which will be shed for you” (Mark 14:22–24). In this way Jesus instituted the sacrament of the Eucharist, the sacrificial meal Catholics consume at each Mass.

I take the words of Jesus very seriously and I hope others will do likewise. I have an open mind and I have no reason to change my opinion or my faith about the Real presence in the Eucharist based on the comments from those that do not fully accept or believe Jesus.

May God help all on their faith journey.

[MHGinTN]

LUKE 22

17 He received a cup, and when he had given thanks, he said, "Take this, and share it among yourselves, 18 for I tell you, I will not drink at all again from the fruit of the vine, until the Kingdom of God comes." 19 He took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave to them, saying, "This is my body which is given for you. Do this in memory of me." 20 Likewise, he took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you. 21 But behold, the hand of him who betrays me is with me on the table.

[wolfman]

Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints, good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ. By contrast, the Bible teaches salvation by faith in Jesus Christ alone. Bible salvation is God’s free gift to any sinner who believes that Christ died for their sins and rose again for their defense. Bible salvation gives immediate assurance of eternal life. No church ever saved anyone, but Christ can and will save everyone who will come and trust Him as their Saviour. Membership or faith in a church does not secure salvation for anyone, but trust Christ and Him alone and you will be saved for all eternity.

[metmom]

Except for one verse that they DEMAND that everyone has to take literally when they don’t even take the rest of the chapter literally.

Picking and choosing whether to take something literally or figuratively on a verse by verse basis within one passage is poor Bible exposition, to say the very least.

It’s a mishandling of God’s word and smacks of dishonesty. There needs to be consistency because who’s to decide from one verse to the next if the speaker or writer meant it to be literal or figurative. You can;t make that decision based on preconceived personal preferences.

Either it’s all figurative, or it’s all literal, and we see that John 6 does not work when it’s all literal.

[metmom]

I take the words of Jesus very seriously and I hope others will do likewise.

So say lots of Catholics.

Do you take these words just as seriously?

Do you get hungry or thirsty? John 6:35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst

No mention of eating here and yet Jesus promises eternal life to those who believe.

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:47 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.

If Catholics are going to demand literal physical eating, then consistency demands literally never physically dying.

John 6:50-51 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

John 6:58 This is the bread that came down from heaven, not like the bread the fathers ate, and died. Whoever feeds on this bread will live forever.”

Matthew 4:4 But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”

When are Catholics going to stop calling their priests *Father*? After all, Jesus said to call no man *father*.

Or do they not take that seriously after all?

Matthew 23: 8-10 But you are not to be called rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for you have one instructor, the Christ.

[metmom]

Luke 18:9-14 He also told this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and treated others with contempt: “Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’

But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

[CynicalBear]

>>I take the words of Jesus very seriously<<

Of course your do. That's why you are heard here bleating like a sheep all the time right? Because Jesus said "my sheep will hear my voice". And of course you don't get hungry or thirsty ever because of course in the same discourse that He said eat my flesh He also said you would never hunger or thirst right? And you will never die either right? Yet Catholics claim Jesus broke the very laws He was sent to keep perfectly. They claim He sinned by eating blood. He said He was bread but they claim they are eating flesh. He conquered the cross and rose again but Catholics have Him still hanging on the cross. He's sitting in triumph at the right hand of the Father but Catholics have Him still being the victim and being crucified daily. Now they have a marxist as their "vicar of Christ" instead of the Holy Spirit which Christ promised to send.

[CynicalBear]

It’s twisting of scripture to fit the pagan “eating of their gods”.

[Syncro]

Your comment: “May the Holy Spirit infiltrate the minds of those that resist.”

Yes. I agree and hope that the protestors listen to the words of Jesus...

Stopping your projecting in mid misdirection.

Yes, the Catholics started the protesting about a 1000 yrs ago, when they broke away from the Christians because those following the words of Jesus were so orthodox they would not follow false leaders (popes) and the man made doctrines emanating from Rome.

The protesting is still going on by those blinded by false doctrine that they are required to believe.

Catholicism continues to try to convince Christians that they know better than the words of Jesus.

I take the words of Jesus very seriously and I hope others will do likewise.

Twisting them into Catholic talking points shows a lack of in depth of studying the scriptures with the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

...those that do not fully accept or believe Jesus

More projection, and quite ironic.

[This from a guy that thinks that a "Consecrated Eucharist host" can be soiled.

If the host really contained Jesus, to call it "soiled" is high blaspheme.]

And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?--Matthew 7:3

Now here is a "pearl" for you:

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.--Romans 10:9

Just pray to Jesus calling on the Holy Spirit and confess like in the Romans verse above and you will be saved.

That is the first step.

[daniel1212]

Your reply makes zero sense.

That you would write a book promoting this tangential error is revealing, yet it remains that the idea that the extent of the binding and loosing that Peter had with the keys given was to bind and loose the Law on the Church is absurd. For it depends upon restricting that power to a doctrinal decision, contrary to Scripture, and presumes that Peter is the one who provided the final judgment as to this and what should be done in Acts 15, which is not the case.

As explained, binding and loosing (both in judicial and spiritual application) was not new, and Peter exercised such in preaching the gospel in Acts 2 etc., before Acts 15. In addition he did so in binding Ananias and Saphira to their sins and unto the death in Acts 5.

Moreover, Peter did not judicially loose anything in Acts 15, as it was James who provided the conclusive judgment, with Scriptural substantiation, in Acts 15, confirmatory of Peter's exhortation and testimony and that of Paul and Barbabas, who prior to this were also preaching salvation by faith, without needing to obey the ceremonial law.

And which has been said and dismissed, and instead comes verbiage from your book which utterly fails to show or warrant the conclusion that the extent of the binding and loosing that Peter had with the keys was to bind and loose the Law on the Church.

[Mark17]

Roman Catholicism makes salvation a long, complicated process with no assurance of eternal life and forgiveness of all sin. Baptism, Mass, Confession, prayers to Mary and the Saints, good works, and purgatory are all added to faith in Christ.

You are correct sir. That is why I am an ex catholic. 😇 I never had any assurance of salvation, not even a little bit, and that was not going to cut the mustard. The reason I had no assurance of salvation, was because I did not have salvation at all. If I had croaked at that time, I would have busted hell wide open. I was religious, but lost as a goose. Things are different now. 😎

[2nd amendment mama]

Placemarker

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"You are correct sir. That is why I am an ex catholic. 😇 I never had any assurance of salvation, not even a little bit, and that was not going to cut the mustard. The reason I had no assurance of salvation, was because I did not have salvation at all. If I had croaked at that time, I would have busted hell wide open. I was religious, but lost as a goose. Things are different now. 😎 " +1 "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!"

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"You are correct sir. That is why I am an ex catholic. 😇 I never had any assurance of salvation, not even a little bit, and that was not going to cut the mustard. The reason I had no assurance of salvation, was because I did not have salvation at all. If I had croaked at that time, I would have busted hell wide open. I was religious, but lost as a goose. Things are different now. 😎 " +1 "Thanks be to God for His indescribable gift!"