New encyclical leaked in Italian (Fr. Z weighs in) [Catholic Caucus]

WDTPRS ^ | June 15, 2015 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

[NYer]

CATHOLIC CAUCUS

[NYer]

Catholic ping!

[NYer]

Italian version of eco-encyclical leaked; Vatican says it’s only a draft

[JPII Be Not Afraid]

The Vatican claims this not the revised edition. I guess we’ll have to wait for Thursday.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Oh...

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Geeezzz.....

[zzwhale]

pope should stay OUT OF POLITICS
he’s a commie when it comes to that..
hey pope.... sell off some of your church’s wealth and give it all to the poor..... and then see IT DOES NO GOOD.....
poverty is the preferred way of life by many.......
BETTER YET, START MENTAL HEALTH CLINICS BECAUSE MANY OF THE POOR ARE MENTALLY ILL...
but please dont be a fool and promote this climate hoax... then you act like a commie where the END JUSTIFIES THE MEANS, AND BESIDES YOU ACT GULLIBLE BELIEVING THAT CLIMATE CHANGE AND CARBON TAX IS ABOUT HELPING POOR COUNTRIES... ITS ABOUT ENRICHING THE TOP 1% AT THE EXPENSE OF ALL THE REST.... SO WISE UP POPE

[oblomov]

So now a papal encyclical is released via “trial balloon”?

[annalex]

The husbandry of God’s creation is not entirely matter of politics; it is solidly within the purvey of theology.

[markomalley]

The husbandry of God’s creation is not entirely matter of politics; it is solidly within the purvey of theology.

But bear in mind this:

The Church does not have technical solutions to offer and does not claim “to interfere in any way in the politics of States.” - Caritas in Veritate

While it is completely appropriate for the Church to state a principle, such as "It is man's responsibility to be a steward of God's creation," endorsing a particular technical solution, such as "It is man's responsibility to set up a global carbon credit exchange" is a different matter altogether.

[Campion]

Yes! And it’s also not the Pope’s job to take sides in a scientific debate, which anthropogenic global warming most definitely is. The church should have learned that from the Galileo debacle. Apparently the lesson was lost on some.

[defconw]

I wonder how long it will take to be translated into English? I am reserving my opinion on this matter until I can read it off the official Vatican website with my own two eyes.

[defconw]

For anyone interested. The Vatican website has a list of all the Holy Fathers featured and you can click on them individually and brush up! :)

[annalex]

endorsing a particular technical solution, such as "It is man's responsibility to set up a global carbon credit exchange" is a different matter altogether.

I know. The point is, this is the Holy Catholic Church, not a tent revival meeting. We do dictate to states; they don't dictate to us.

[markomalley]

>>The point is, this is the Holy Catholic Church, not a tent revival meeting. We do dictate to states; they don’t dictate to us.

Consider this quote from Unam Sanctum, Bull of Boniface IV, 1302:

“Both, therefore, are in the power of the Church, that is to say, the spiritual and the material sword, but the former is to be administered for the Church but the latter by the Church; the former in the hands of the priest; the latter by the hands of kings and soldiers, but at the will and sufferance of the priest.”

[annalex]

That was exactly the encyclical on my mind. Thank you.

[Grateful2God]

Exactly! Still gonna hang on til the real deal comes out. Man, the media jumps on everything! I’m more concerned about the purported leak... Maybe China hacked into the Vatican, too...

[Grateful2God]

"Vatican City State itself participates in some international organizations whose functions relate to the state as a geographical entity, distinct from the non-territorial legal persona of the Holy See. These organizations are much less numerous than those in which the Holy See participates either as a member or with observer status."

The Vatican State

He's more than just a Pope. JPII got involved in the Eastern-block countries' politics, and the wall came a tumblin' down. There are 1.2 billion of us spread out all over the world...

Nod to the late Carl Sagan: 1.2 biiiiilllllyyyyuuuuunnn.

[Grateful2God]

Just curious, zz, are you Catholic?

[markomalley]

pope should stay OUT OF POLITICS

Really?

• 9. But Catholic wisdom, sustained by the precepts of natural and divine law, provides with especial care for public and private tranquillity in its doctrines and teachings regarding the duty of government and the distribution of the goods which are necessary for life and use. For, while the socialists would destroy the "right" of property, alleging it to be a human invention altogether opposed to the inborn equality of man, and, claiming a community of goods, argue that poverty should not be peaceably endured, and that the property and privileges of the rich may be rightly invaded, the Church, with much greater wisdom and good sense, recognizes the inequality among men, who are born with different powers of body and mind, inequality in actual possession, also, and holds that the right of property and of ownership, which springs from nature itself, must not be touched and stands inviolate.
  
  Pope Leo XIII, Quod Apostolici Muneris (On Socialism)
  
  Should he have stayed out of politics?
  
  
• The doctrine of modern Communism, which is often concealed under the most seductive trappings, is in substance based on the principles of dialectical and historical materialism previously advocated by Marx, of which the theoricians of bolshevism claim to possess the only genuine interpretation. According to this doctrine there is in the world only one reality, matter, the blind forces of which evolve into plant, animal and man. Even human society is nothing but a phenomenon and form of matter, evolving in the same way. By a law of inexorable necessity and through a perpetual conflict of forces, matter moves towards the final synthesis of a classless society. In such a doctrine, as is evident, there is no room for the idea of God; there is no difference between matter and spirit, between soul and body; there is neither survival of the soul after death nor any hope in a future life. Insisting on the dialectical aspect of their materialism, the Communists claim that the conflict which carries the world towards its final synthesis can be accelerated by man. Hence they endeavor to sharpen the antagonisms which arise between the various classes of society. Thus the class struggle with its consequent violent hate and destruction takes on the aspects of a crusade for the progress of humanity. On the other hand, all other forces whatever, as long as they resist such systematic violence, must be annihilated as hostile to the human race.
  
  Communism, moreover, strips man of his liberty, robs human personality of all its dignity, and removes all the moral restraints that check the eruptions of blind impulse. There is no recognition of any right of the individual in his relations to the collectivity; no natural right is accorded to human personality, which is a mere cog-wheel in the Communist system. In man's relations with other individuals, besides, Communists hold the principle of absolute equality, rejecting all hierarchy and divinely-constituted authority, including the authority of parents. What men call authority and subordination is derived from the community as its first and only font. Nor is the individual granted any property rights over material goods or the means of production, for inasmuch as these are the source of further wealth, their possession would give one man power over another. Precisely on this score, all forms of private property must be eradicated, for they are at the origin of all economic enslavement.
  
  Pope Pius XI, Divini Redemptoris (On Atheistic Communism)
  
  How about that pope, should he have stayed out of politics?
  
  
• In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called "Welfare State". This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the "Social Assistance State". Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State.
  
  John Paul II, Centesimus Annus (On the 100th anniversary of Pope Leo XIII's Rerum Novarum - On Capitol and Labor; On Catholic social teaching)
  
  Should he have stayed out of politics?

I don't care, for the most part, for what I've read and what I've heard from this particular pope. But read the above. Are you really sure that those popes have kept their mouths shut in those cases? Or should this pope keep his mouth shut because we don't agree with him?