Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Against Rome's Apostolic Succession Argument by Bullinger (Part 1)
Beggars All ^ | Dec 29,2013 | - James Swan

Posted on 02/16/2015 12:14:36 PM PST by RnMomof7

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 last
To: Carpe Cerevisi; Resettozero
No, no really. I've about given up on the "my religion is better than your religion" game. It's stupid and time is too short. I say to hell with it.

Does that mean you won't be participating anymore on Catholic-posted threads doing that, either? (i.e.; A Protestant Historian Discovers the Catholic Church – Conversion Story of A. David Anders, Ph.D. )?

81 posted on 02/16/2015 10:39:24 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Grateful2God
Heinrich Bullinger (1504-1575) was a Swiss Reformer and author of a popular writing entitled The Decades. This particular writing was influential in England, highly esteemed and used as a textbook of sorts for training English clergy.

I don't know what year the book was written. Henry VIII would certainly have been a major proponent if he were alive to read it. What Henry did was tantamount to declaring himself pope in his country. Not going to spend the time.

You ought to take the time when you make unfounded assertions on a thread. Henry VIII (28 June 1491 – 28 January 1547) was King of England from 21 April 1509 until his death (January, 1547). You should know that Henry was NOT a proponent of Luther or the European Reformation. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Reformation:

    The English Reformation was a series of events in 16th century England by which the Church of England broke away from the authority of the Pope and the Catholic Church.

    These events were, in part, associated with the wider process of the European Protestant Reformation, a religious and political movement that affected the practice of Christianity across most of Europe during this period. Many factors contributed to the process: the decline of feudalism and the rise of nationalism, the rise of the common law, the invention of the printing press and increased circulation of the Bible, the transmission of new knowledge and ideas among scholars, the upper and middle classes and readers in general. However, the various phases of the English Reformation, which also covered Wales and Ireland, were largely driven by changes in government policy, to which public opinion gradually accommodated itself.

    Based on Henry VIII's desire for an annulment of his marriage (first requested of Pope Clement VII in 1527), the English Reformation was at the outset more of a political affair than a theological dispute. The reality of political differences between Rome and England allowed growing theological disputes to come to the fore.[1] Until the break with Rome, it was the Pope and general councils of the Church that decided doctrine. Church law was governed by the code of canon law with final jurisdiction in Rome. Church taxes were paid straight to Rome, and the Pope had the final word in the appointment of bishops.

    The break with Rome was effected by a series of acts of Parliament passed between 1532 and 1534, among them the 1534 Act of Supremacy which declared that Henry was the "Supreme Head on earth of the Church of England".[2] (This title was renounced by Mary I in 1553 in the process of restoring papal jurisdiction; when Elizabeth I reasserted the royal supremacy in 1559 her title was Supreme Governor.)[2] Final authority in doctrinal and legal disputes now rested with the monarch, and the papacy was deprived of revenue and the final say on the appointment of bishops.

    The theology and liturgy of the Church of England became markedly Protestant during the reign of Henry's son Edward VI largely along lines laid down by Archbishop Thomas Cranmer. Under Mary, the whole process was reversed and the Church of England was again placed under papal jurisdiction. Soon after, Elizabeth reintroduced the Protestant faith but in a more moderate manner. The structure and theology of the church was a matter of fierce dispute for generations.

    The violent aspect of these disputes, manifested in the English Civil Wars, ended when the last Catholic monarch, James II, was deposed, and Parliament asked William and Mary to rule jointly in conjunction with the English Bill of Rights in (the "Glorious Revolution") in 1688, from which emerged a church polity with an established church and a number of non-conformist churches whose members at first suffered various civil disabilities but which were removed over time. The legacy of the past Catholic Establishment remained an issue for some time, and still exists today. A substantial minority remained Roman Catholic in England, and in an effort to disestablish it from British systems, their church organisation remained illegal until the 19th century.


82 posted on 02/16/2015 11:11:08 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7
And, let's not forget that Solomon's mom was Bathsheba...you know, the adulterous wife that had an affair with King David, got pregnant, and after her husband was sent into battle for a sure death, married the king. Are RCs sure they want Mary compared to her?
83 posted on 02/16/2015 11:18:28 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: wmfights
I look forward to the day I meet Mary in heaven. I've always wondered if she knew who Jesus really was before the resurrection. I'm inclined to believe she thought He was a prophet, maybe the Messiah, but I doubt she had any idea He was God in man.

My opinion is, you're correct, but I am not 100% sure. There is no doubt Jesus' half brothers did not believe in Him, according to John 7, but I think they became believers later. Better late than never.

84 posted on 02/16/2015 11:26:49 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: MamaB; Mark17
We're gettin’ ice/sleet here! Temp right now is 28 and there's about an inch of ice/snow on the surfaces. Will get down to 7 on Wednesday with snow showers predicted. It's been a relatively mild winter here in NC so far. Guess we're due! I'm with you MamaB, I'm looking forward to Spring - it's my favorite season here.
85 posted on 02/16/2015 11:27:44 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

Good info to keep for reference. Thanks. Funny how these threads quickly divert to arguments about Mary no matter how they start out.


86 posted on 02/16/2015 11:28:56 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
Christian brethren can’t multitask???

I was an air traffic controller. I had to multitask, just to survive my 8 hour shift. 😄😄😃😊

87 posted on 02/16/2015 11:32:44 PM PST by Mark17 (Calvary's love has never faltered, all it's wonder still remains. Souls still take eternal passage)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
"You should know that Henry was NOT a proponent of Luther or the European Reformation."

Never said he was.

88 posted on 02/16/2015 11:47:20 PM PST by Grateful2God (Faith alone, not good works? And Mother Teresa wasted all that time with both...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
Good reads from: Famous Trials by Douglas O. Linder (2015)
UNIVERSITY OF MISSOURI-KANSAS CITY
(UMKC) SCHOOL OF LAW

Leviticus & The King's Great Matter

Acts of Parliament
Scroll to the bottom: the two Acts of Succession and The Treasons Act are to be found there.

The Oath

89 posted on 02/17/2015 12:34:27 AM PST by Grateful2God (Faith alone, not good works? And Mother Teresa wasted all that time with both...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: boatbums
From Britannica.com:

(Excerpt) Thomas Cromwell, earl of Essex
Written by Sir Geoffrey R. Elton
Last Updated 8-11-2013

Thomas Cromwell, earl of Essex, (born c. 1485, Putney, near London—died July 28, 1540, probably London), principal adviser (1532–40) to England’s Henry VIII, chiefly responsible for establishing the Reformation in England, for the dissolution of the monasteries, and for strengthening the royal administration...
...Cromwell, whose forthright and clear-sighted temper was less well suited to the conduct of foreign affairs than was Henry VIII’s skillful opportunism, involved himself in projects of a Lutheran alliance distasteful to the King who wished to stand on Catholic orthodoxy.

90 posted on 02/17/2015 1:34:12 AM PST by Grateful2God (Faith alone, not good works? And Mother Teresa wasted all that time with both...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: CommerceComet

How about starting a thread on your personal reflections on douchebaggery and I’ll be sure to leave a comment for you.


91 posted on 02/17/2015 3:21:12 AM PST by Carpe Cerevisi
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: daniel1212

So they condemned the Gnostics then embrassed one of their beliefs!! How Catholic of them!


92 posted on 02/17/2015 6:03:49 AM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: boatbums

It is 17 here. Even my house is ready for spring. Stay warm.


93 posted on 02/17/2015 6:52:57 AM PST by MamaB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 85 | View Replies]

To: RnMomof7

Bullinger is full of Bull and has no authority. His opinion is certianly not more worthy of more merit than for example, St. Ignatius of Antioch:

Even a cursory reading of the still extent letters of St. Ignatius, Third Bishop of Antioch (A.D. 110) reveal that the Roman Church and the Greek orthodox Church have retained the true nature of the Apostolic Church.

St. Ignatius presents a clear view in his letters of the catholic, hierarchical and monarchical structure of the very earliest Church: (quote)

“Where the Bishop is, let there the people be, as where Jesus is, there is the Catholic Church”.

Ignatius commented extensively on the True Presence of Christ in the Eucharist.

Don’t heed the errors of the later protestant revisionists of history; read St. Ignatius 7 letters firsthand.


94 posted on 02/17/2015 7:41:58 AM PST by stonehouse01
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Carpe Cerevisi
How about starting a thread on your personal reflections on douchebaggery and I’ll be sure to leave a comment for you.

I would but the self-appointed thread monitors would complain that there are bigger fish to fry.

95 posted on 02/17/2015 10:18:00 AM PST by CommerceComet (Ignore the GOP-e. Cruz to victory in 2016.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: jobim; Resettozero
You can trace it - you really can!

No, you really can't.

96 posted on 02/17/2015 11:05:37 AM PST by roamer_1 (Globalism is just socialism in a business suit.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Mark17
My opinion is, you're correct, but I am not 100% sure.

Thank you.

There is no doubt Jesus' half brothers did not believe in Him, according to John 7, but I think they became believers later. Better late than never.

I agree with you.

I think the evidence is overwhelming that none of them really knew who HE was. I believe all a Christian has to do is read Scripture and apply God given commonsense to see this truth. Unfortunately so many people let others dictate what they may believe that when heresy starts it becomes an orthodoxy fairly quickly for these people.

You can see how ridiculous this Maryolatry is just by looking up "Sabbatine Privilege".

97 posted on 02/17/2015 11:33:45 AM PST by wmfights
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: stonehouse01; RnMomof7
Bullinger is full of Bull and has no authority. His opinion is certianly not more worthy of more merit than for example, St. Ignatius of Antioch:

What gives Ignatius more authority than Bullinger? Are you aware that the so-called letters of Ignatius of Antioch are considered forgeries by many? See The Ignatian Forgeries. There is adequate evidence that what some believe are genuine letters from Ignatius are really forgeries written at least a century or later after his lifetime. From the link above:

    We take the view that all of Ignatius' writings are forgeries and unreliable. There are fifteen books attributed to Ignatius. Eight are surely forgeries and spurious. Seven are considered by some as genuine, although many scholars also believe they are all forgeries. Again, we view all Ignatius' writings as forgeries. They purport to be written by Ignatius, who lived about 110 AD. We believe it is clear, however, that they are all no earlier than 220 AD, more likely 250 AD. Although they are forgeries, they do represent the views of the author in time of 250 AD. We see a clear change from the Bible pattern, from a plurality of Elders (also called bishops) , deacons and saints, to a single Bishop who ruled the congregations and under him were a plurality of elders, then deacons and saints. At this point in history, congregations were still autonomous and independent, but we also see the seeds of development for the Papal system, where one man rules over all churches world wide which first occurred in 606 AD.

Shouldn't we ALL be under the authority of Scripture rather than individuals no matter how far back they supposedly go?

98 posted on 02/17/2015 6:25:53 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-98 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson