Posted on 02/01/2015 10:20:56 PM PST by Morgana
Matthew 19:11-12
“But he said to them, Not everyone can receive this saying, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.”
No where in this passage do I read into a requirement of celibacy as a prerequisite for service in the priesthood.
1 Corinthians 7
“It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, and likewise the wife to her husband. For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. Do NOT (emphasis added)deprive one another, except perhaps by an agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer, but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of control. Now as a concession, NOT (emphasis added)a command I say this. I wish that all were as I am. But each has his own gift from God, one kind and one of another.”
No where in the above passage does Paul insist that celibacy must be a requirement for service in the priesthood. Quite the contrary, if you read Paul’s letter to Timothy, he HAS NO ISSUE WHATSOEVER with a married clergy.
” A bishop then must be blameless, the HUSBAND OF ONE WIFE (emphasis added), vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach.”
1 Timothy 3:2
Then explain away 1 Timothy 3:4 where it says the have had to prove themselves capable by managing a household and children prior to being considered for leadership positions.
No, celibacy is NOT the ideal.
It is not God’s plan. That’s why God created Adam AND Eve. Why God commands us to be fruitful and multiply. Why God created man and woman. The ideal Christian life is husband and wife and their children. That is also what Jesus teaches. The traditional family unit is ideal.
No where in the Bible does Paul state that celibacy is a requirement for service in the priesthood. Fact is no one in the Bible does.
Paul’s letter to Timothy specifically states it’s OK for a bishop to be the husband of one wife.
Paul clearly has no issues with a married clergy. I have no issues with a married clergy. The Bible has no issues with a married clergy. The early Church had no issues with a married clergy. Why do you have issues with a priest or bishop being married? I see no prohibitions on this in the Bible. Paul certainly did not prohibit it.
The verse also says a bishop must have his children under submission. So you are saying someone must be married AND must have children to be considered to be a bishop? Someone married but without children cannot be a bishop?
So in your opinion, Paul was saying that he himself was not qualified to be a bishop?
Paul SPECIFICALLY mentions in his letter to Timothy it is OK for a bishop to be married. Read that passage again.
1 Timothy 3:2 It’s there. Unless you have some sort of spin on it that I’m not getting.
Jesus NEVER says ANYWHERE in the gospels that celibacy is a requirement for service in the priesthood. NO ONE does. In fact Jesus had married men among his disciples including Peter.
You are reading into the Bible. I am reading it as it is written and not making up these conclusions. Priests were in fact married men in the Bible, they were expected to be married.
Paul NEVER states celibacy as a requirement for service in the priesthood. No one in the Bible does require such a mandate. This is a Church requirement, not a Biblical requirement.
I think you and I are talking over each other, unfortunately.
I think you seem to agree with me that there is no mandatory celibacy requirement for service in the priesthood. Right?
The fact that Paul is unmarried at the time he wrote the passage is neither here nor there. He is an older man at the time he wrote it. We know nothing about Paul’s personal or family life. He could have been a widower. He could have been divorced. We don’t know. So I won’t speculate. Nearly all men in the Jewish priestly class were expected to be married. In fact all Jewish men in that era were expected to be married and have families. You were considered an outcast if you weren’t. Or maybe you had a contagious disease like leprosy.
Paul never suggests his way is the only way and he has no trouble with married men serving in the clergy.
No, I don't think it is the "ideal", meaning the goal that one should strive for. I think there are some whom God gifts with both the desire and ability to remain single and devote themselves to ministry. But even as Jesus says, it is a hard thing. And to say that singleness is the "ideal" would make God a liar when He said "It is NOT GOOD for man to be alone."
OK. Good. We agree on at least one point: Clerical celibacy is not mandated in the Bible. We agree. This is therefore a Church requirement.
Celibacy is only an ideal condition for those unable to limit physical intimacy to the confines of Holy Matrimony.
Jesus and Paul have no issues with physical intimacy between a husband and a wife. No one in the Bible does. Physical intimacy between husband and wife is God’s gift and God’s plan for humanity. Celibacy is desirable only for those who cannot keep physical intimacy limited within Holy Matrimony. It is not an end to itself. If it were, mankind would have died out long ago and you and I would not be having this conversation.
Yup. The whole marriage and one flesh thing was GOD's idea, not man's.
And that was before the Fall.
It would turn God into a cruel prankster to give men and women the strong desire for sexual intimacy and then tell them they're better off and it pleases Him more if they try to suppress it and not obey His command to be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it.
Um,,,,,,that was Paul writing that, not me.
>>So in your opinion, Paul was saying that he himself was not qualified to be a bishop?<<
Prove that Paul was never married and didn't have children. Let me help a little there. All indications say that Paul was part of the Sanhedrin. To be a member of the Sanhedrin you had to be married and at least 30 years of age.
Precisely. In those days you were considered an outcast or a weirdo if you weren’t married. In Paul’s station in life-—being a member of the Sanhedrin class, it is virtually a given that he must have been married at one point.
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